Jun 23, 2026 · 30 min · 10 segments
In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 5 of *How to Get a Return on Failure* by John Maxwell and get surprisingly personal doing it. Jason opens up about navigating a…
This whole book, of course, is about failure and how to get a return on failure, how to get good stuff out of failure.
But this one was the chapter was embrace the value of hard failure being a part of difficult things.
Well, there's a cliche phrase that we've all heard, but I want to say it and then maybe say something differently about it.
We often hear growth lives on the other side of difficulty and we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But how many people do you know that volunteer to go through difficulty? Not a lot of people, but this chapter reminds me of kind of classic Maxwell writing and content.
So for me, it's what would it look like if we didn't spend our lives trying to maybe avoid or avoid hard it reminds me of the um oh what's the movie uh dodgeball when you know he's kind of throwing the wrenches and what is it like dodge duck you know i forget like kind of his his sayings there and it's doing the same thing with hard like we dodge and we duck and we avoid hard but but what if we looked at hard as a growth accelerator, because we chose to sit and walk, sit in it and walk through it.
And that's my takeaway from this chapter is what would it look like, Jason, if you didn't dodge and duck hard, but you sat in it, you stayed in it, you walk through it, and it may be the very growth accelerator that changes everything versus what you think will change everything.
Yeah, it kind of, as I was reading it, I'm reading it obviously through my lens of I'm currently running a company, Sunday Social.
So we were like, it was like David versus Goliath, right? Everyone sees themselves as David in the David versus Goliath story.
I know me and my business partner had to, had to make this like mentality change of like, you know, we're like, Oh, someone's stealing our graphics.
And it's just like this guy that's, you know, trying to, trying to serve 20 people.
We're like, let's throw some rocks at him and realizing like, Oh, he's the David.
Like we're attacking him, even though he's, in the wrong right he's like stealing stuff right but like realizing that we're the Goliath in the situation so we're coming in with force and that's but then it just makes me think that like there's always you know everyone everyone's trying to get no one's trying to become Goliath but everyone's trying to get past that like underdog realm but then here's the thing is once you're Goliath there's always a David and There's always someone that can take you down.
This whole book, of course, is about failure and how to get a return on failure, how to get good stuff out of failure.
But this one was the chapter was embrace the value of hard failure being a part of difficult things.
Well, there's a cliche phrase that we've all heard, but I want to say it and then maybe say something differently about it.
We often hear growth lives on the other side of difficulty and we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But how many people do you know that volunteer to go through difficulty? Not a lot of people, but this chapter reminds me of kind of classic Maxwell writing and content.
So for me, it's what would it look like if we didn't spend our lives trying to maybe avoid or avoid hard it reminds me of the um oh what's the movie uh dodgeball when you know he's kind of throwing the wrenches and what is it like dodge duck you know i forget like kind of his his sayings there and it's doing the same thing with hard like we dodge and we duck and we avoid hard but but what if we looked at hard as a growth accelerator, because we chose to sit and walk, sit in it and walk through it.
And that's my takeaway from this chapter is what would it look like, Jason, if you didn't dodge and duck hard, but you sat in it, you stayed in it, you walk through it, and it may be the very growth accelerator that changes everything versus what you think will change everything.
Yeah, it kind of, as I was reading it, I'm reading it obviously through my lens of I'm currently running a company, Sunday Social.
So we were like, it was like David versus Goliath, right? Everyone sees themselves as David in the David versus Goliath story.
I know me and my business partner had to, had to make this like mentality change of like, you know, we're like, Oh, someone's stealing our graphics.
And it's just like this guy that's, you know, trying to, trying to serve 20 people.
We're like, let's throw some rocks at him and realizing like, Oh, he's the David.
Like we're attacking him, even though he's, in the wrong right he's like stealing stuff right but like realizing that we're the Goliath in the situation so we're coming in with force and that's but then it just makes me think that like there's always you know everyone everyone's trying to get no one's trying to become Goliath but everyone's trying to get past that like underdog realm but then here's the thing is once you're Goliath there's always a David and There's always someone that can take you down.
The rest of this transcript — segmented and speaker-labeled, so you land on the exact moment something was said
Search every transcript — by keyword, by phrase, or by meaning, across every show Radar indexes
Trends — what is surging across podcasts, measured against its own baseline
Alerts — when a name you follow appears in a newly indexed episode
No account is needed to search Radar.