Aug 26, 2026 · 53 min · 12 segments
Complex chronic conditions like ME/CFS and Long COVID routinely stall in clinical development. Traditional trial designs rely on broad diagnostic criteria, grouping biologically distinct patients…
Chris ArmstrongGuest
Steve GardnerHost
They're not necessarily very well understood by the general population, and yet they are incredibly debilitating for patients living with those conditions.

Has that given any particular challenges, either in getting studies funded or in... telling the story of why work in ME-CFS and other related diseases is so important?

It was increasingly more difficult, I would say, even back then, because it takes a lot to get recognised, I think, through the large government-based funding.

But one of the main limitations of it is that it relies upon viewing researchers based on their track record with inner disease.

to give them notoriety or to make it seem like they kind of know what they're doing within a space.

That kind of creates this club that you're not a part of when you start and get in there.

Because how do you show that you're credible when you haven't had ever had the funding to do a large study? And even if you show, you know, a sequence of small studies, How do you show that you can run a large study that you deserve hundreds of thousands of dollars of government money to do a research project? And that's, it's been extremely difficult.

And that's where philanthropic bodies coming in has been kind of a lifesaver and actually triggered funding within this space.

But I think from that PhD, from your initial project, possibly coming out of your PhD, you ended up publishing one of the very first papers on metabolomics in ME-CFS.

How was that received? You talk about having to break the door down a little bit.

Was that immediately accepted? Was it something that fitted into the canon of explanations of the disease biology?

And actually for the first many years, actually during my PhD, I largely existed within the conferences of metabolomics.

For me, making sure the methodology and stuff that we were doing was the main focus at the time.

They're not necessarily very well understood by the general population, and yet they are incredibly debilitating for patients living with those conditions.

Has that given any particular challenges, either in getting studies funded or in... telling the story of why work in ME-CFS and other related diseases is so important?

It was increasingly more difficult, I would say, even back then, because it takes a lot to get recognised, I think, through the large government-based funding.

But one of the main limitations of it is that it relies upon viewing researchers based on their track record with inner disease.

to give them notoriety or to make it seem like they kind of know what they're doing within a space.

That kind of creates this club that you're not a part of when you start and get in there.

Because how do you show that you're credible when you haven't had ever had the funding to do a large study? And even if you show, you know, a sequence of small studies, How do you show that you can run a large study that you deserve hundreds of thousands of dollars of government money to do a research project? And that's, it's been extremely difficult.

And that's where philanthropic bodies coming in has been kind of a lifesaver and actually triggered funding within this space.

But I think from that PhD, from your initial project, possibly coming out of your PhD, you ended up publishing one of the very first papers on metabolomics in ME-CFS.

How was that received? You talk about having to break the door down a little bit.

Was that immediately accepted? Was it something that fitted into the canon of explanations of the disease biology?

And actually for the first many years, actually during my PhD, I largely existed within the conferences of metabolomics.

For me, making sure the methodology and stuff that we were doing was the main focus at the time.
The rest of this transcript — segmented and speaker-labeled, so you land on the exact moment something was said
Search every transcript — by keyword, by phrase, or by meaning, across every show Radar indexes
Trends — what is surging across podcasts, measured against its own baseline
Alerts — when a name you follow appears in a newly indexed episode
No account is needed to search Radar.