Nuclear magnetic resonance

in the anticoagulant.

You know, because those, the anticoagulant particularly- EDTA will affect, in this case it's not, in this study it doesn't matter because we used NMR, but EDTA affects the, um, the LCMS, you know-

Mm-hmm

... chromatography spectrum.

I went through the ROSE 2 trial the other day, and one of the things that I found interesting was...

And we'll link to the study so folks can see it, but the LDL-C lowering, there was also an NMR for LDL-P lowering, and then there was ApoB.

And there was quite a discordance between those.

The ApoB lowering, I don't remember, was maybe sixteen percent-

Is that really that kinda thing? Usually, what typically have with LDL-P of LDL seventy, LDL particles fifteen hundred.

It's very easy to see the discordance a lot easier.

Which assay did you use for NMR? This was the-

This is the LipoScience.

Uh, but you wanna, you know, y- you wanna understand your lipids.

What I tell people is it's not about the quantity of your lipids, it's about the quality of your lipids, and I think that's what's really important and that's what we un- wanna understand, and that's where we get into things like, uh, you know, NMR testings, particle sizes, um, oxidized phospholipids, uh, that type of testing, uh, I think becomes important.

important.Yes, hi.

The reason why I ask, my name is David Neighbor, uh, from Statesboro, Georgia, and I'm a cardiologist, a cardiac electrophysiologist.

And so we are focused on what modalities do you expand into? is cryo-EM too crowded? There's a lot of focus there.

What are some other structural techniques? Do we think about SACS or HGX mass spec or NMR? How do we think about the data that we're actually collecting? Like, do we know what kind of data needs to be kept so that we can sort of reprocess and remodel it.

What are the biological questions? And so what really came out of there is that we decided that for a variety of reasons, mainly for alignment between the algorithms that we're already developing, that the next sort of step is to expand this into cryo-EM.

So we're super excited.

What data do we actually collect? What scaffolds do we put on? What mutations are we actually putting in there? All the way into sort of how do you interpret these mutational data and model this in this way, and data processing and encoding sort of along the way is going to allow us to tackle this.

And I think we'll learn a lot, again, sort of from cryo-EM for expanding out into other modalities.

So we're in the ideation phase of how do you bring in both HDX mass spec and NMR into this.

And then we can also start to think about how do you actually get information from multiple different experimental approaches.

Here, what Brooker is really good at doing is holding the importance of standardization in mind and driving it.

So if you switch technologies, I know this is concentrating on chromatography, but think just for a minute about nuclear magnetic resonance.

There, you have the ability to do highly standardized protocols, drop in a sample, do a very consistent measurement, take the sample back out.

The system is unchanged, right? It's vastly easier in that respect than hyphenated chromatographic mass spectrometric detection systems.

And when I say that, he'll explain a little later, but he's gotten involved in mushroom identity, authenticity, analytical testing, quality and transparency.

He's one of the first ones to use NMR analysis when it comes to mushroom identification because there is a lot of adulterated mushrooms out there.

And Bill will talk about that lately as we move on.

But more importantly, I really want to build up Bill's story so you understand that things didn't happen overnight.

right? And

if you list the genus and species of your either plant or fungal species, It is the one task that you have to have done as dictated by the current manufacturing regulations that has to be a physical test that a laboratory has to perform for identity.

In this case, working with a technology called nuclear magnetic resonance or NMR when I was at the Sonoran University, I learned the value of this for the characterization of molecules.

So if you say you have a certain molecule.

Unfortunately, they used the paper I think you're referring to, It was one of the American Heart Journals, I think.

This is a real sore point for me because there is a measurement that has become widely available around the world using a procedure called NMR, nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy, that has been promoted and has been made available by a company I'm going to name the company because I really want to point my finger at them.

It's called Nightingale.

It's based in Europe.

Yeah, that's an interesting point that you made about the techniques.

I don't think I've ever heard that before, that if you adjust for April B, and the effect of the small dense LDL goes away, at face value, the interpretation would be, okay, so it's all about the number and not about the size, but you're pointing out that it could just be characteristics of the assay itself could confound that analysis.

So as you're explaining that, I was thinking, what if the adjustment uses LDL-P instead, because that's derived from NMR, right? So that would be more apples to apples?

That's been done too.