Oct 1, 2026 · 33 min · 10 segments
In the second week of June 1787, the small states stopped losing votes politely. David Brearley proposed erasing every state boundary and redrawing America into 13 equal parts. William Paterson…
By the second week of June, 1787, the Committee of the Whole had worked its way through most of Virginia's resolutions, and the shape coming off its table was everything George Reed had warned his colleagues about in May.
A national legislature of two branches, seats in both of them apportioned to population.
Each time the question of representation came to a vote, the big states had the votes, and won.
On Saturday, June 9th, the small states stopped arguing the clauses and declared political war underneath.
David Barely, the Chief Justice of New Jersey, the man Major Pierce had called good rather than brilliant, with every virtue to recommend him, rose and attacked the foundation itself.
Proportional representation, he argued, sounded fair and was not.
If the convention truly wanted fairness, Judge Barely said, there was one honest way to get it.
Lay the map of the United States on the table.
Erase the boundaries of the states and lay off 13 equal parts.
Erase the states and draw 13 equal ones.
It was not entirely a debater's flourish.
Judge Barely and his colleagues meant it seriously.
If representation must be proportional, then make the states proportional first.
His colleague rose next.
William Patterson, the Attorney General of New Jersey, the small, quiet man who never spoke, but when he understood his subject well.
He understood this one.
The Virginia plan, he told the committee, exceeded the convention's powers and the people's readiness both.
She would be swallowed up.
I would rather submit to a monarch to a despot than such a fate.
And Mr. Patterson reached back 13 years for his proof to the argument America itself had made against Parliament.
It had once been proposed, by Joseph Galloway and others before the war, that America be given seats in the British Parliament and be bound by its laws.
By the second week of June, 1787, the Committee of the Whole had worked its way through most of Virginia's resolutions, and the shape coming off its table was everything George Reed had warned his colleagues about in May.
A national legislature of two branches, seats in both of them apportioned to population.
Each time the question of representation came to a vote, the big states had the votes, and won.
On Saturday, June 9th, the small states stopped arguing the clauses and declared political war underneath.
David Barely, the Chief Justice of New Jersey, the man Major Pierce had called good rather than brilliant, with every virtue to recommend him, rose and attacked the foundation itself.
Proportional representation, he argued, sounded fair and was not.
If the convention truly wanted fairness, Judge Barely said, there was one honest way to get it.
Lay the map of the United States on the table.
Erase the boundaries of the states and lay off 13 equal parts.
Erase the states and draw 13 equal ones.
It was not entirely a debater's flourish.
Judge Barely and his colleagues meant it seriously.
If representation must be proportional, then make the states proportional first.
His colleague rose next.
William Patterson, the Attorney General of New Jersey, the small, quiet man who never spoke, but when he understood his subject well.
He understood this one.
The Virginia plan, he told the committee, exceeded the convention's powers and the people's readiness both.
She would be swallowed up.
I would rather submit to a monarch to a despot than such a fate.
And Mr. Patterson reached back 13 years for his proof to the argument America itself had made against Parliament.
It had once been proposed, by Joseph Galloway and others before the war, that America be given seats in the British Parliament and be bound by its laws.
The rest of this transcript — segmented and speaker-labeled, so you land on the exact moment something was said
Search every transcript — by keyword, by phrase, or by meaning, across every show Radar indexes
Trends — what is surging across podcasts, measured against its own baseline
Alerts — when a name you follow appears in a newly indexed episode
No account is needed to search Radar.
