The AI Doctor Debate: Autonomous AI in Healthcare with Ezekiel Emanuel, MD, PhD

So you laid out beautifully, you know, this idea of the spectrum of error.

I heard a great quote.

Kevin Shulman was the one that quoted this individual, and I can't remember who said it.

But he was like, I do think, you know, there's this idea of if nothing else on the subject of error, AI can help us not just be the best version of ourself, but even just the good slash average version of ourself.

So, you know, like depending on what our sleep is, depending on what potentially our wearables say, which I know, you know, a lot of them are trash as, as we saw recently on, on one of a popular one, as far as it's REM sleep evaluation.

My point is if there is any kind of effect the next day or the time of day or, you know, proximity to caffeine use, could something just kind of be a hedge against those, you know, dips or naders in our processing or, infallibility.

And if nothing else, I would hope that the argument is pretty uniform that we have the humility to say that would be nice.

Well, I think Bob Wachter puts it well.

You know, he says, when I walk on the ward floors, you know, I feel like I have multiple consultants in my pocket.

I can just pull up open evidence and consult with them and, you know, maybe reassure that my judgment is right or, you know, find a perspective that I hadn't anticipated or fill in a blank that I can't remember at that point.

And I think that's right.

You know, that is sort of AI is decision support.

I think it's the minimal use of AI, as it were.

I think that probably is a kind of consultation that is widely endorsed by all people in the medical field.

And my disagreement with the AMA, say, or whomever, I don't think that's not the source of it.

The source of the disagreement is about this issue of autonomous AI without case-by-case physician oversight.

That's what autonomous means.

Can AI manage a patient without a doc overseeing in some way? And that, I think, is a that's not about making me my average self.

It's it is about the AI substituting for a doc.

Now, let's remember.

You know, in this country, one of the big complaints at the moment is I can't get an appointment or my next appointment is two months from now and I have an urgent problem.

And I think.

the first widespread use of AI is likely to be in the case of places where we either have physician shortages, you know, 140 million Americans live in counties without adequate numbers of PCPs.

And we all know a number of oncologists in rural communities and other communities is too low.

I once, many years ago, did a survey of doctors and found out that there were three oncologists or something like that in North Dakota and that they flew around to give chemotherapy.