There's a difference.

We make the assumption that your older brother is an idiot.

That's right.

Well, because there's birth order theory, but when you look at that through the lens of gender, you have to agree, young women are raised a little bit differently.

We are handed responsibility very young.

We mind the siblings.

We keep the peace.

What are other telltale signs for... for first daughter syndrome? Like if any single man listening goes on a date, what should he be looking for?

They've now realised in men that they can have the same kind of hormonal imbalance, depression that women also get after birth.

Well, especially with his history.

He doesn't remember his childhood.

He lost his dad really young.

He's got this, you know how Prince Harry speaks about just an empty space where his protective part of his brain just blocked out his mother entirely, which is so sad.

Bobby has the same thing.

And then we got together very quickly.

pushing

feel bad about things you've done? Do you sort of sit and think, oh, I feel a bit bad about that?

There've been things I've said in standup that I felt bad about because when I started standup in this country, people like to explain something compared to something.

So they'd say I was like Joan Rivers because I have a caustic sense of humor.

I like to talk about celebrities.

I'm glamorous.

And then I leaned into that.

I like roast comedy.

beloved.

And I also think this is a first born daughter response.

Well, it's a survival skill, isn't it? And it's very protective.

So I believe through my research on earth that every man is one mistake away from exploding his whole life every day.

I think even a respectable husband and father can leave the house one morning with good intentions.

And I don't know what goes wrong at lunch.

But sometimes he never returns.

And even he's upset.

Why did you want to do that?

And I also think this is a first born daughter response.

Well, it's a survival skill, isn't it? And it's very protective.

So I believe through my research on Earth that every man is one mistake away from exploding his whole life every day.

I think even a respectable husband and father can leave the house one morning with good intentions.

And I don't know what goes wrong at lunch, but sometimes he never returns.

And even he's upset.

He's like, how did this happen? And I know that women also are capable of betrayal.

Why did you want to do that?

What are the signs that display this?

Well, so there are very different archetypes of the firstborn daughter.

And again, none of this is like science-based, but it's psychoanalysis.

So you could be a diplomat.

You could be an invisible firstborn daughter.

You could be a visionary maverick.

You could be a rebel.

And that was not an easy thing to do, to be going around having to do jobs here and there and mind a child at the same time.

firstborn daughter? Describe.

We are very competent and very resilient and very headstrong, but we've also had to pick up a lot for the family.

There's parentification from a young age where you are looking after your siblings.

You're reminding your parents that having a marital dispute at parents' evening is maybe not the best thing.

You're picking up a lot around the house.

You're like a little mini mom.

But also you can read the room really well.

Come on, mate.

My journey undoubtedly easier than yours, right? And do you sometimes think that people don't credit, I don't know how much credit you want for that, but it's a different route, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? We've had the same route, but our experiences are different, right? It's

not that I want any credit for it whatsoever.

These are my choices, and I think it's weird to hold yourself aloft as like, I am a sacred vessel because I chose to have kids.

Fine, I chose to have kids.

I chose to parent them the way that I parent them.

But then you look at someone like Nikki Glaser and how much she's achieved since I became pregnant like a stray cat, just like a breeding farm.

And then you think, every once in a while you go, if I'd stayed in America, because I didn't even go to America for three years because I was quite busy at home and didn't want to travel with babies and it just didn't make any sense.

What was the genesis of this book then? Did you start, was it like you were sort of looking at Instagram and thinking, this resonates with me or something? Or is this a theory you've always had?

have you found that that bit of you changes, say, when you're pregnant?

Only very slightly.

I've become a little bit more vulnerable in pregnancy and I am pregnant a lot, but I can have a newborn baby and my mental health is rock solid.

I'm very emotionally regulated.

I'm like tremendously lucky to be that way.

I don't have fear.

I don't have anxiety.

sorry, three,

Like

we try to elevate our girls, I think, because I was putting lemon juice in my hair and going outside and doing horrible fake tan with the orange arms and legs and then wearing certain things I thought, and getting like razor burn.

I always thought, okay, my daughter, I'll take her for a laser, or like waxing, or then I'll have her hair done by a salon, or I'll avoid all these things.

She won't be shaving her own eyebrows in math class.

But then that is what they do.

They do their own fake tan.

They want to do their own hair.

I'm surprised you can

So what are some of your top tips to festival goers this weekend?

Well, first of all, everyone just needs that.

Like, they're all panicked about, where am I going to park? Just go slow, go slow.

You will be sent by the guards to a car park.

You will find somewhere to camp.

It's very busy here, but there are spaces.

It just means maybe... searching a little bit further and just make sure you put your tent up properly use your guide wires again when you're leaving the tent because there is going to be downpours throw everything into a bin bag and put it up in your rear mattress or whatever you have at least that way if your tent does it's still dry

It's just there's going to be a bit of a bottleneck, isn't there?

[laughs]

Where how- They're like, "Yeah." They're like, "Come on in." 'Cause I did a lot of, like, what was it called? Nubian comedy nights and stuff.

Like, it was very weird the places I was allowed, um, through sheer, uh, yeah, delusion and privilege.

So I walked into this conference room with my roommate Catherine, and we were like, "Yes, we're ready to audition." And the guys were like, "What?" And we're like, "Yeah, we wanna be in the Get Busy music video." And they put on a record.

They were like, "All right, then dance." And I don't think anyone else had to dance.

And that, I, I think they just wanna get a look at you.

But it was a quiet, quiet boardroom of, like, eight men.

Mm-hmm.

this just like an AI thing they've put together? No,

no, no.

So the photographer is a wonderful lady called Idle Sucan.

She dressed me up as child, why would I do this? Be like child Queen Elizabeth.

There is a photo of child Queen Elizabeth exactly in this pose, in this dress.

So that's in your head where you go, I know what I want.

I know.

understand how

I've got a plan, but I'm not gonna tell you, am I? You're the last person I'm gonna tell anything to now.

I wouldn't let this continue, though.

I don't think you have to cabbage 'cause you've been cabbaged.

Are you crazy? [laughs] It'll just bring on a whole whirlwind of, of revenge.

You could do what the mafia did and then, like, cabbage David Trent's dad or mother.

Yeah

... from Greek.

So it's a badly executed version of a Greek wedding, and I don't know if it's 'cause I've been in the UK for eight years, but Canadian men, to me, sound delayed, for back- lack of a better term.

[laughs]

"Kenny Dalglish follows you.

What? How did you do that?" And I saw...

I looked at who it was, and I could see that he was a very respected, renowned, and accomplished footballer, and that's nice.

I don't know why he follows me.

Mm.

I'm not ready yet.

Some women I see and they rock the gray, and then it look, they have a really glossy gray hair.

I guarantee mine's gonna look like a Brillo pad.

[laughs] It's gonna look like your man's-

He said, "You're all a bunch of fucking-"

...

he said, "Bitches." Yeah.

Okay, great.

It is cheap.

It is portable.

When I had Violet, um, 2015, she would've been 5 during the Melbourne Festival, and we just had a blast.

We had this life where we could do anything and go anywhere, and I have since had three more children.

Who rattles you or, like, kind of, like, gets you a bit flustered? 'Cause Joan certainly did that for me.

Um, Jimmy Carr sort of in this country did for me what it sounds like Joan Rivers did for you, and gave me a lot of grace and a lot of opportunities, and I still just absolutely love him.

I, I really love that not only is Jimmy, uh, just so solid on stage, and he always tours, and he has such a great work ethic, but he's really opening up on podcasts and in-

Do you think you'd be good on it though, Katherine?

No, obviously not.

Well, a clip from your podcast, uh, came into my algorithm the other day, and I love you guys, so I watched it, and you were speaking about the text to all game on Michael McIntyre, and then by surprise, my name came into the mix.

And you said, "Oh, when, when I got a text from Katherine Ryan, she said, 'I'm gonna do a routine about you on Graham Norton.'" And then Ed said, "That's the one you should have believed that Katherine would do that." I would do that because I don't...

I can't keep a secret.

I can't really tell a lie.

[laughs]

It goes...

Yeah

... um, who have nothing else to do in the day, and their, their heart's in the right place.

But these women are, are rich, and then they're selling cupcakes for ten p. You're never gonna make money selling something for ten p.

And, uh, Katherine?

I am also appearing in, uh, Bad Adults, which starts in June on BBC Three.

I have a little role in that.

I have some gigs.

If you care enough, you will find out where they are.

After a couple of hours, it's time for Jill's first pit stop, where she's joined by a surprise guest.

Hello.

It's me, TV's Katherine Ryan.

I am warm and cozy, having a lovely coffee at the first pit stop, waiting for Jill Scott, but she's been a little bit delayed, uh, in the monsoon that is England.

I think Jill is doing great.

I don't think that Jill is affected by inclement weather.

I'm sure she's played in bad weather.

Meet me outside in five minutes.

What was the poi- was there anything that actually happened to you that you were like, "Oh, this is what's rocked the boat and makes me feel, not wanna feel anxious or stressed about anything"?

Well, career-wise, there were milestones that I wanted to hit, and then, like you say, the repetition of it, you learn, your brain learns how to separate nervous from excited, and then nervous melts away.

And I'm still excited.

I feel very grateful to do my job.

I still feel, "Oh, that'll be fun.

That'll be great." I get excitement, but the nervous really scary bit of it is dead.

Um, but then also when my daughter was young and things were actually hard, I'll never forget how it feels when you have real stress, stress that you might, you know, be homeless-

You're stressed about getting old, otherwise you wouldn't be doing something about it.

Well, maybe that's an Australian thing.

I've...

Yeah, I mean, I, I, a comedian who did not give Joan Rivers her flowers would rue the day they met me.

I've never met anyone who has anything less than, like, glowing, glowing reports about her.

So many British comedians have met her.

She would come over here a lot and do Live at the Apollo, and put gigs on here.

I've never met her, but by all accounts, she was not only hardworking and talented like the aforementioned Nikki Glaser, but just so generous-

Yes

Who rattles you or, like, kind of, like, gets you a bit flustered? 'Cause Joan certainly did that for me.

Um, Jimmy Carr sort of in this country did for me what it sounds like Joan Rivers did for you, and gave me a lot of grace and a lot of opportunities, and I still just absolutely love him.

I, I really love that not only is Jimmy, uh, just so solid on stage, and he always tours, and he has such a great work ethic, but he's really opening up on podcasts and in longer-

This has made my day, my week.

I love you, and I, I love every vehicle that you have, and I didn't even know the Joan Rivers connection, and after today I've learned something new about someone that I already love so much, so thank you for that lesson.

Mm.

It created this, like, fear in me, and I don't think my mom was in the wrong for giving me, like, accurate statistics at that time.

But I wonder sometimes if I would have maybe chosen men who were less dangerous if I didn't grow up with the narrative that all men were dangerous.

Do you know what I mean?

No.

Well, that's how I'll get canceled.

Someone from high school will, like, dig out an old, like, film photograph of me holding this ban- me, an LGBTQAI+ ally who wishes no harm to anyone wanting to live their life in their most authentic way, holding this "Go home, Dyclones" banner.

And I thought it was so clever.

But we should

say that to them, shouldn't we? We should start just being like, oh my God, where are your children? Who's watching them? Where are they? Are you co-sleeping? How do you tour when you're a dad of one? How do you do that? you know, it's, but it is a thing.

Like there is a woman, Erica Komisar, who I really love.

And she appeared recently on the Kardashians and she's this renowned psychologist.

She talks a lot about attachment theory and attachment parenting.

And she's made this return to biology, which is weird.

Cause I'm really, I think I'm very progressive.

And then I