We did.

We did.

But we talked about this on the recap episode.

on the second try we there was like this awe or like aura in the room that we all just kind of looked at each other and everybody knew and like i immediately was like there is there's just no way we can do a better blend i've done this maker's mark thing too many times um and i've Greg, we've done it where 15 blends in and I just want to bang my head against the wall like nothing's working.

I can't get the recipe down.

On the second try, we came up with something that we all looked at each other and we're like, there's just no way we can do something better and of course we had to try because we all came down to makers and did this whole experience and you can't just give up after 10 minutes but um but but that blend that we put together was special and um it's it's gonna be really exciting to have that come in the bottle and taste it again and be able to share it with everybody who's listening Most definitely.

Okay.

Yeah, we do ship to 40 states.

But it takes a hell of a lot of time and effort and money to do it.

Yeah.

I mean the amount of like testing and then we'll get into more of this later, but the amount of testing that you guys do, um, in, you know, data collection is insane.

So I'm sure you've recently, or at some point have tried not rotating certain amount of barrels, blending them together.

And then the taste just doesn't add up to the traditional way that you guys have done it.

Jake, speaking of, if you want to go find Taylors or Wellers or Blantons in the back room, where can people do that at?

I don't know about the back room, but if you want to buy it online or come grab it off the shelf, you can come to Gold Eagle.

Check us out online at goldeaglewine.com.

Right, Jake? Like it's even like cleaner than that.

No, I mean, I definitely like get more of those floral and grassy notes than I do any smoke.

Yeah, it's it's very subtle.

And it's like it's almost like tasting peat without the smoke.

Definitely without the iodine-y kind of flavor that you get in Isla Scotch.

This would totally be one if somebody came up to me and said, hey, I want to dip my toes in some peat or dip my toes into American single malt and you know, see what that's all about.

I'd be like, here, try this Midwest single malt and see what you think.

So we'd love to have you guys down for a tour sometime.

So.

Yeah, so I well, I mean, I had, you know, when I first started working at the store, it's a little different now, but like I enjoyed the I enjoyed the thrill of grabbing a bottle to bring home without tasting it like and i was really picky like i would wait and like see something that really caught my eye like something that i knew and this was before we had the bar so i couldn't taste all these different things uh but like a limited scotch release or like a new kind of limited bourbon release that would be on the shelf um Um, cause I always felt guilty, uh, bringing anything home that wasn't like on the shelf and posted.

So it would mostly be things on the shelf, but I enjoyed the thrill of taking something home on a whim, trying it, uh, and then like kind of taking time to dissect how they really like it.

Cause I truly believe the bottles will change.

Um, and your perspective will change based on what you ate or drink that day or your mood.

or what you're feeling.

So I feel like it's almost sometimes a disservice to have a tasting bar.

mean this is the the problem though right like the the distilleries probably do know how to do that but like they're not the ones actually selling it to the consumer so right that's part of the problem

I think we kind of all felt that way after the third blend.

Well, we felt it after the second.

I mean, I wish we were recording the room at this moment, and I'll kind of back up.

Like, I've done so many of these Maker's Mark blends before, and... you know it's it's usually a four hour long process of tweaking and changing and tasting and tweaking and changing and tasting and your palate gets so burnt out and so fatigued and I've been a part of these makers mark picks where you've done 16 or 17 blends and you just feel like we are not getting anywhere.

Like everything we've done, we think it's going to do this and it ends up doing that and nothing is clicking.

But this second blend that we put together, as soon as everybody picked up their glass, nosed it and taste it, there was like this aura in the room.

Like everyone was looking at each other like, holy crap.

Our last barrel pick, the Beautiful in the Dam, sold out in like seven or eight weeks, right?

Because I think they're, like, kind of hitting the ceiling with what they put out now.

I don't think they're going to make any Buffalo Trace products at this new facility.

I think Buffalo Trace is gonna remain what it is.

I think they've done enough expansion there.

I mean, they put 1.2 billion into Buffalo Trace over the last 10 years just to expand it.

So I think they're all set there.

And I think they're also realizing that We haven't even seen the outcome really of this expansion yet.

read your post so yes i didn't read your post i just looked at the pretty pictures

We'd have to confirm

that, but.

Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, that brings up a good point because I feel like the consumer becoming more educated than ever is starting to ask more questions on like four grain stuff specifically.

Like, was this distilled as a four grain where all four grains were distilled and put into the barrel at the same time? Or is this just a blend of two mash bills? And it's, it's, it's almost impossible to be, cause I hear this a lot from consumers, but it's, I don't think it's right to say like, oh, I don't like bourbons when they're, or, you know, four grains when they're blended together at the end.

Um, the really, the only way you could answer that question is if you tried the same bourbon distilled and put into the barrel as new make altogether versus that same bourbon blended at the end.

Um, But I feel like when four grain became a hot word and this was, you know, maybe eight, 10 years ago, we started to see a lot more four grains and a lot of them were blended together at the end of maturation, which if you know what you're doing with blending, you can certainly come up with a really, really complex product.

No, I know, yeah.

Jake, do you want to give us a quick rundown for those who are not familiar with the three-tier system? Then we'll jump into this R&DC story.

Yes.

Um, so every, every state is a little different.

Certain states are, you know, state controlled liquor stores, um, yada, yada, yada.

Um, but all the super state controlled, um, But all the liquor laws and jurisdictions and everything to do with how this is all set up was written right after prohibition ended in 1933.

And almost nothing has changed.

A lot of these things were set up um in a way that could probably make a lot more sense if we made some changes now but um that's just not how it works liquor industry with that side of things moves very very slowly um and it's mostly set up to make sure the government gets all their tax money so why would they want to adjust it but we're going to be talking about Illinois.

So it's kind of a screwed if you do, screwed if you don't type of situation.

But yeah, that's probably not the case.

Yeah, it's a really difficult business.

Growing that fast in this business is really easy to kind of level off or go into a big decline, especially because they expanded to so many states so quickly.

And a lot of that revenue is distributors buying the bottles from you.

And then if the distributors can't move the bottles off the shelf, that revenue stops.

Yeah.

Yeah.

descriptive, 10 out of 10.

What's the impact of some sort of downturn in the industry? I think, Jake, you had a pretty strong opinion on what you thought was going to happen between the big guys and the smaller guys.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

This chart is what we've been kind of discussing and I don't think it should come as a surprise to anyone because people like Jim Beam and bigger distilleries have said they're going to pause production or not distill as much.

And we all know there is a surplus of whiskey aging.

But, you know, I'm still looking back at 2020 when big distilleries like Maker's Mark and Woodford Reserve ran out of their regular 90, 94 proof stuff on the shelf and what do you do when you don't have your flagship everyday bread and butter as you ramp up production you start making more and you i mean dan you were a distiller you get in the habit of running the still x amount of hours a day and it's kind of hard or you don't like how would you know when to like pause and really scale back and not produce as much as you're producing it's it take it's going to take years to realize oh wow like we went from out of whiskey to sell to now having a surplus of barrels.

And so, of course, like at that point, you're going to hit the brakes pretty hard, which is what we're seeing right now.

But I do like your point, Dan, about how there's many more people in the industry today compared to back when we were almost steadily producing this amount of whiskey.

But since January of 25, call it May of 25, June of 25. been pretty steady so yeah i think a lot of people are selling on this to me this is more or less saying that more people are selling off more unicorn bottles probably at a lower price they're not what's something you might have got 2004 back in january 23 you might only be getting a thousand for right now if you sell five at a thousand versus one at two thousand right so that doesn't always do too much for

things.

So let's use some of those as an example, because there are some that aren't really that cool.

For example, Knob Creek.

They took the regular nine year small batch and they just made a red, white and blue label.

Um, it doesn't look, I mean, the bottle looks the same.

They did do blue wax, which is kind of cool.

Um, but it's not like, you know, it would have been really cool if they would have done like a special, um, you know, blend or a special, uh, you know, certain single barrels or done something maybe a little older age statement.

Yeah.

That's a decent price point.

Probably somewhere around here.

Yeah.

So we had this, we had this conversation two nights ago at the, or this was last night at the Old Louisville master class.

Um, we've had Amin on the podcast before.

I would highly recommend going back to listening to that episode.

Um, the dude is extremely smart, uh, with a lot of things whiskey, but his specialty is the maturation of the whiskey.

[laughs]

Why, um, are we looking at a little bit bigger of a group for a Maker's Mark barrel pick?

Uh, well there's a couple different reasons.

I mean, for one, uh, I, I say this all the time, and we have like, you know, different businesses that come to us and want to do a barrel pick and have a good experience.

Maker's is the peak of experiences.

This is by far the most fun, the most hands-on, uh, barrel pick experience that you can possibly imagine.

We're creating our own blend of Maker's Mark using different stave finishes on Maker's Mark Bourbon.

And the way this program kind of came about, and Dan, this is kind of aimed at you here 'cause you really want to taste your Ambassador barrel at Maker's Mark.

So what's been going on down in Kentucky recently?