Yeah.

Well, and I think it may or may not be related, but I think we all recognize conflict is inevitable.

And 1 Corinthians 13, 11 says, when I was a child, I would think as a child, I would speak as a child, I would reason as a child, but when I became an adult, I did away with childish things.

And the challenge for us is to remember that our kids are children and that they're going to speak in childish ways, they're gonna think in childish ways, they're going to reason in childish ways, and that's going to create problems.

And so as adults, we've got to realize that there is this 18-year period of time that we're going to have to understand this dynamic and not be frightened, but realize, hey, they're in development.

And I remember myself coming to that point where the Lord spoke to my heart.

This isn't just about you parenting them.

Yeah.

How did your own story, your upbringing, and your marriage to Sarah, your years as a pastor, slowly lead to you to this particular calling of helping men and women understand each other?

Yeah.

As I referenced earlier, I think the upbringing, the wounded healer, I spoke at Liberty University to 12,000 students and I talked about being the wounded healer and how, you know, that upbringing, my dad attempted to strangle my mother to death when I was two and a half.

I witnessed this.

I never said anything about it until after my dad had died.

And I said to my mom, I saw dad attempt to strangle you.

And she was in shock.

If every married couple listening today could truly grasp one spiritual truth about their spouse, what single insight do you think would change most lives most quickly?

what are these three things, the way they act out?

Right, right.

Well, in my book, Love and Respect in the Family, I address that because I actually got my Ph.D. in family studies, did my dissertation on fathering.

And it was going to address family issues, but I wanted to wait for my kids to grow.

And then the love and respect message kind of got out there and took over.

It wasn't that I was focused on marriage ministry.

It was really more the broader scope of family and marriage kind of.

Hmm.

Do you have any advice for taking some steps to really instill empathy in our children who are operating in more of a survival mode?

Well, there's empathy from us as parents, first and foremost, and a sign of emotional intelligence is empathy.

But it becomes delicate because if in some way they're sending an indirect message that I am damaged goods and that you aren't really bringing healing to me because of that.

There's a blame that's being assigned.

Now, this is hard as a parent.

You've reached out to serve them.

We see ourselves as honorable, loving, giving, noble.

And so how would you speak to that? And really for the parents and for a child who is recognizing they've done wrong, they want to repair, they want that do over, but they really are having a hard time forgiving themselves for doing the thing that hurt another person.

Yeah.

She knows she's upset, but she's usually wanting to connect, wanting to be reassured, wanting to resolve, wanting to repair, and, uh, is a little insecure that maybe he's gonna reject her, and so she wants everything to be okay, but comes at him, and then he's out of the blue saying, you know...

And so there is a misunderstanding again But yeah, the, the aha moment came back in around '99.

I, you know, both from the academic standpoint as well as from other resources, I realized that love and respect were the two key ingredients for successful relationships.

University of Washington studied 2,000 couples for 20 years, and Gottman's research said we now know the two key ingredients for successful relationships.

And if that's the case, then what's the implication of that? And that's where it gave birth in the gender specific, women tend to lean toward the love side, although she needs R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

[laughs]

But again, how do we deal with these weaknesses in another person without resenting them to the point that you said? And I think, uh, Jan, many people just resent another human being who really has not done anything wrong against them.

How did your mom demonstrate this to you in communication? I mean, you put the story in the book.

Right, right.

No, huge.

I mean, I came out of a non-Christian family.

My dad attempted to strangle my mother when I was two and a half.

I witnessed that.

They divorced before that when I was one, but then they remarried each other, and then they separated right after that episode for five years.

So what are some general guidelines as we go through daily life? Because that's where, for me, a lot of the grind happens is, oh, there's an opportunity.

Mm.

And the question is how do you deal with the crazy cycle? Because it tends to keep happening.

And then you get off the crazy cycle by getting on what we call the energizing cycle.

His love motivates her respect.

Her respect motivates his love.

I believe that when you meet a person's deepest need, you motivate them, you energize them, you influence them, and there tends to be a reciprocity to that way given there's goodwill in the relationship.

It just works.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

And coming to the point of looking at the strengths, looking at the vulnerabilities and being able to continue to grow in that.

And I think that we have some real potential for great wisdom.

I applaud that.

But then the question is, how do we deal with our parents? And this is where you're seeing younger kids are canceling their mom and dads because they feel hurt by their mom and dad, therefore mom and dad are hurtful.

They feel offended by mom and dad, therefore mom and dad are offensive.

But is that the truth? I mean, are your parents really goodwill people who are trying the best? My mother used to always say to me, your daddy doesn't know how to be a daddy.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

and coming to the point of looking at the strengths, looking at the vulnerabilities and being able to continue to grow in that.

And I think that we have some real potential for great wisdom.

I applaud that.

But then the question is, how do we deal with our parents? And this is where you're seeing younger kids are canceling their mom and dads because they feel hurt by their mom and dad, therefore mom and dad are hurtful.

They feel offended by mom and dad, therefore mom and dad are offensive.

But is that the truth? I mean, are your parents really goodwill people who are trying the best? My mother used to always say to me, your daddy doesn't know how to be a daddy.

and

Mm-hmm.

and coming to the point of looking at the strengths, looking at the vulnerabilities and being able to continue to grow in that.

And I think that we have some real potential for great wisdom.

I applaud that.

But then the question is, how do we deal with our parents? And this is where you're seeing younger kids are canceling their mom and dads because they feel hurt by their mom and dad, therefore mom and dad are hurtful.

They feel offended by mom and dad, therefore mom and dad are offensive.

But is that the truth? I mean, are your parents really goodwill people who are trying the best? My mother used to always say to me, your daddy doesn't know how to be a daddy.

and

Mm-hmm.

And that's a very serious question, and certainly it's one that I feel deeply about because there are s- uh, bits of skill you need, bits of knowledge you need, just a little skill, a little knowledge, but if you don't kinda have that skill, you don't have that knowledge, or you've tried that and it didn't work, I mean, then people get into a point where they really get, um, fearful and they're overcome by that fear.

But my mission, people have asked me, "What is the key to, you know, you think the problems in marriage?" I think, well, if given there's basic two g- good people with good will, as, as Joy made reference, that we didn't marry Hitler's distant cousin, [laughs] you know?

Yep

... to the kids, "I love you so much I'd, I, I'd go into a burning car to save you.

I mean, I love you that much." And so apart from our own pain, we want our children...

And these four questions, is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? Is it clear? Um, the book that I wrote, we did a, a national, uh, research on this.

These are all distinct.

Mm-hmm.

and coming to the point of looking at the strengths, looking at the vulnerabilities and being able to continue to grow in that.

And I think that we have some real potential for great wisdom.

I applaud that.

But then the question is, how do we deal with our parents? And this is where you're seeing younger kids are canceling their mom and dads because they feel hurt by their mom and dad, therefore mom and dad are hurtful.

They feel offended by mom and dad, therefore mom and dad are offensive.

But is that the truth? I mean, are your parents really goodwill people who are trying the best? My mother used to always say to me, your daddy doesn't know how to be a daddy.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And that's a very serious question, and certainly it's one that I feel deeply about because there are s- uh, bits of skill you need, bits of knowledge you need, just a little skill, a little knowledge.

But if you don't kinda have that skill, you don't have that knowledge, or you've tried that and it didn't work, I mean, then people get into a point where they really get, um, fearful and they're overcome by that fear.

But my mission, people have asked me, "What is the key to, you know, you think the problems in marriage?" I think, well, given there's basic two g- good people with goodwill as, as Joy made reference, that we didn't marry Hitler's distant cousin, [laughs] you know-

Yeah

... to the kids, "I love you so much I'd, I, I'd go into a burning car to save you.

I mean, I love you that much." And so apart from our own pain, we want our children...

And these four questions, is it true, is it kind, is it necessary, is it clear, um, the book that I wrote, we did a m- national, uh, research on this.

Mm-hmm.

And blew his, his father in the back, and his father fell forward and pushed him off the cliff and then went into the open sea, and the grandfather went in the woods.

And I use that analogy to say it's helped me to be empathetic toward people who are inflicting pain upon me because quite often there was an- another generation, and if you will sit down with them and pull out that story, you'll find explanation as to why they've made decisions the way they've made it, and quite often it's self-protective.

They were so deeply hurt that they made a commitment never again.

And of course, now then we suffer the consequences of that in the next generation.

Yep

... to the kids, "I love you so much I'd, I, I'd go into a burning car to save you.

I mean, I love you that much." And so apart from our own pain, we want our children, and these four questions, is it true, is it kind, is it necessary, is it clear, um, the book that I wrote, we did a, a national, uh, research on this.

Mm-hmm

... and blew his, his father in the back, and his father fell forward- and pushed him off the cliff and then went into the open sea and the grandfather went in the woods.

And I use that analogy to say it's helped me to be empathetic toward people who are inflicting pain upon me because quite often there was another generation.

And if you will sit down with them and pull out that story, you'll find explanation as to why they've made decisions the way they've made it.

And quite often it's self-protective.

They were so deeply hurt that they made a commitment never again.

And of course, now then we suffer the consequences of that in the next generation.

So what would you say would be the hope within the book for someone that's divorced that has kids that's also reading the book?

Oh, my word.

So Keith, I knew, and women are not mean-spirited, they're fearful.

There's a fear that they're gonna be dismissed, that they're gonna be put down, it's fear.

It's not selfishness per se, it's not meanness, it's a fear.

I've done this long enough now to know that.

She fears she's gonna somehow be dismissed or lowered in this thing if she respects somebody who she doesn't see as superior and she's not inferior.

And the dictionary says, you show respect to your superiors.

What makes it worse and how do they resolve it?

No kidding.

So you and I serve and die for honor, but women see this as narcissistic.

And so I was up against something there.

But apart from how I began to avoid the landmines and unpack this that really excited people, I realized there is this connection here.

Something is being revealed here.

And the research confirms this as well.

I won't get into that.

What would you say to a man that's in that situation? Because, gosh, I've had so many DMs and conversations in person with men that are dealing with that day in and day out.

Except for that.

Yeah.

And so women are rooted.

It's rooted in fear.

They're not mean spirited.

They're just fearful that somehow they're going to be either dismissed or put down or the common thing.

Well, we need R-E-S-P-E-C-T as well.

submit? Well, because I read your book,

In

the portions of Scripture applied to marriage, they do not do that.

The very one who penned 1 Corinthians 13 never commands a wife to agape love her husband.

So that silence there was intriguing to me, and partly it's because I think God's put it within the nature of women to nurture.

Women love to love at the level of intimacy.

I mean, I say to women, how many times did you say I love you today to family, friends, your mother, your dad? Love you, love you, bye, love you, love you, love you, love you, love you, love you.

It's just incessant.

It

[laughs] True.

And if you'll see every movie where the woman is feeling, "Do you love me?" Uh, and so there is this cultural, I think, recognition of that.

And so to me, it's not a matter of, of choosing one or the other.

If you get on the crazy cycle and you're reversed, and some are, then the same applies.

If she's feeling disrespected, that needs to be addressed.

There are times Sara feels disrespected.

I dismiss, maybe come across dismissing her opinion, um, and so she's feeling, "I don't feel unloved this moment.

[upbeat music]

Say more about that.

Well, let me just say again, I am so refreshed by your encouragement about the table of contents.

I too am excited about this book and I just long for people to, Sarah and I have been praying about it.

I said, oh, I just love for people to read this because I just think it can really encourage them greatly.

But the University of Washington studied 2000 couples for 20 years and they did this in-depth research and they revealed two sides of this equation.

I'll come back around to this idea that women are critical and complaining.

and what's what's behind that but they began with the man and they noticed that in conflicts and people were in this love laboratory when people get into these conflicts and they were being videotaped they were being monitored heartbeats were monitor i mean the whole thing was in depth there was a non-disclosure people didn't want that revealed they didn't have to but they discovered that 85 of those who withdrew and stonewalled during a marital conflict was the husband 85%, Susie.

Yeah,

Why?

Because the way you're treating your wife.

You must live with her in an understanding way because you're the Christ figure to her.

And if you're not listening to her, then I, the Christ, am not going to listen to you.

Mm-hmm.

But that also is a compliment to the man.

And this is interesting.

How do you describe that? Maybe they haven't read Love and Respect, but just simply put, what's the biblical idea there?