transform together – the podcast meetup about organizational development
Jul 3, 2026 · 41 min · 12 segments
Episode 17 - Simon Flossmann In this episode of transform together, Johannes Schartau talks to Simon Flossmann about Evidence-Based Management, Scrum.org’s framework for connecting goals, measures…
I imagine a lot of people listening might not be familiar with evidence-based management itself.
Could you quickly go into what this is and what problem it is trying to solve?
So one major problem or difficult situation for scrum practitioner is the scrum byte mentions something, I think, like value, the product owner or the team needs to create value, but it does not actually define what value is.
And I think evidence-based management helps you to get a different perspective on value.
So we have current value, the value we're creating at the moment, what is the potential and how fast we can create value and how good are we in creating value.
These are at least four more perspectives which product people can use to understand the notion of value.
And the other one is, I think it's a little bit from the historical point of view.
Ken Spaber, one of the co-creators of Scrum, came up with the notion of evidence-based management.
And in the early days prior to Scrum, when he also introduced Scrum, or what it's called that days, to other companies, he worked a lot in medicine tech.
And he was always very impressed how medicine are developed and what scientific rigor is here.
Because at that time, software was just built and then, oh, finally we built something awesome.
and that's the notion of evidence-based management if you combine it with the notion of value and with this okay we build something and then we try to evaluate if it's actually creates value that's evidence-based management in a nutshell so we're looking about goals which direction we want to go we try to describe what value actually means so what does progress mean And then instead of having a fixed plan or a gunshot or a pick, which we need to complete, we do some kind of, let's say, experimentation step by step and learn along the way and fail along the way.
So basically I used it for, not just for software development, but also for HR, for instance, to help them create more value and achieve their goals.
I imagine a lot of people listening might not be familiar with evidence-based management itself.
Could you quickly go into what this is and what problem it is trying to solve?
So one major problem or difficult situation for scrum practitioner is the scrum byte mentions something, I think, like value, the product owner or the team needs to create value, but it does not actually define what value is.
And I think evidence-based management helps you to get a different perspective on value.
So we have current value, the value we're creating at the moment, what is the potential and how fast we can create value and how good are we in creating value.
These are at least four more perspectives which product people can use to understand the notion of value.
And the other one is, I think it's a little bit from the historical point of view.
Ken Spaber, one of the co-creators of Scrum, came up with the notion of evidence-based management.
And in the early days prior to Scrum, when he also introduced Scrum, or what it's called that days, to other companies, he worked a lot in medicine tech.
And he was always very impressed how medicine are developed and what scientific rigor is here.
Because at that time, software was just built and then, oh, finally we built something awesome.
and that's the notion of evidence-based management if you combine it with the notion of value and with this okay we build something and then we try to evaluate if it's actually creates value that's evidence-based management in a nutshell so we're looking about goals which direction we want to go we try to describe what value actually means so what does progress mean And then instead of having a fixed plan or a gunshot or a pick, which we need to complete, we do some kind of, let's say, experimentation step by step and learn along the way and fail along the way.
So basically I used it for, not just for software development, but also for HR, for instance, to help them create more value and achieve their goals.
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