Jun 3, 2026 · 38 min · 9 segments
In this episode of The Science of Learning, we’re joined by Paul Givan, Northern Ireland’s Education Minister, to explore the books and reports that have shaped his thinking and influenced education…
Paul GivanGuest
Bradley BuschHost
It's actually at the end of her book, so we'll start at the end, just to kind of get your thoughts on it, if that's okay.
She wrote, this book was not written as a how-to guide for developing the perfect system, but I hope that by exploring the approaches and policies employed by some of the world's top performing education systems, I've helped you come to a fuller understanding of what might work in your own.
Now, given that Lucy's been very involved in the curriculum reform over here, I thought I'd just ask you, did Cleverland do that for you guys over here? And what really stood out for you?
I listened to other previous ministers, Sir Nick Gibb, and he had opportunity when he was in the opposition as the spokesperson on education.
I had basic knowledge as a local politician, sat in the school board of governors of two primary schools, a post-primary school.
I had very limited knowledge at all around the key aspects of education with no time to prepare.
And I only realized it was going to be education minister literally minutes before I officially took up office.
My leader told me I was going to be a minister, but I didn't know what department until I was actually made education minister.
So I didn't have the benefit that other ministers have had to do all of that preparatory work.
And therefore, having to expose yourself very quickly to some writings of authors and narrators.
What is it that makes a good education system? And Lucy's book was one of those books in those very early days where she talked about high performing countries and those countries that you've mentioned that she visited.
And we often talked about Northern Ireland having a world class education system.
It's actually at the end of her book, so we'll start at the end, just to kind of get your thoughts on it, if that's okay.
She wrote, this book was not written as a how-to guide for developing the perfect system, but I hope that by exploring the approaches and policies employed by some of the world's top performing education systems, I've helped you come to a fuller understanding of what might work in your own.
Now, given that Lucy's been very involved in the curriculum reform over here, I thought I'd just ask you, did Cleverland do that for you guys over here? And what really stood out for you?
I listened to other previous ministers, Sir Nick Gibb, and he had opportunity when he was in the opposition as the spokesperson on education.
I had basic knowledge as a local politician, sat in the school board of governors of two primary schools, a post-primary school.
I had very limited knowledge at all around the key aspects of education with no time to prepare.
And I only realized it was going to be education minister literally minutes before I officially took up office.
My leader told me I was going to be a minister, but I didn't know what department until I was actually made education minister.
So I didn't have the benefit that other ministers have had to do all of that preparatory work.
And therefore, having to expose yourself very quickly to some writings of authors and narrators.
What is it that makes a good education system? And Lucy's book was one of those books in those very early days where she talked about high performing countries and those countries that you've mentioned that she visited.
And we often talked about Northern Ireland having a world class education system.
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