The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast
Oct 16, 2026 · 23 min · 9 segments
Most agency owners think building a successful business means becoming the CEO, but many never escape the operator role. John talks with Jason Swenk about the five stages agency founders go through as…
John JantschHostSo as founders, we all start off as operators, where we're doing everything, okay?
So then what happens is we're having fun, and we concentrate on sales, and then operations takes a hit, and then we focus on operations, and then sales takes a hit, and this-
And then what happens is we go, "We wanna grow, and I don't wanna be doing everything." So what you start to do, and you're working 80 hours a week as an operator, right? If not more.
And we've all done it, and we all have to go through all these roles, right? And so then you transition to a manager, but the problem is we suck at managing people.
So now we're stuck doing the same amount of work that we were doing before, plus managing them, plus probably even doing their work.
I mean, I, you know, like many of folks you've worked with over the years had, I did everything myself.
So as founders, we all start off as operators, where we're doing everything, okay?
So then what happens is we're having fun, and we concentrate on sales, and then operations takes a hit, and then we focus on operations, and then sales takes a hit, and this-
And then what happens is we go, "We wanna grow, and I don't wanna be doing everything." So what you start to do, and you're working 80 hours a week as an operator, right? If not more.
And we've all done it, and we all have to go through all these roles, right? And so then you transition to a manager, but the problem is we suck at managing people.
So now we're stuck doing the same amount of work that we were doing before, plus managing them, plus probably even doing their work.
I mean, I, you know, like many of folks you've worked with over the years had, I did everything myself.
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