Jun 5, 2026 · 41 min · 11 segments
After the Bondi massacre, many Australian Jews were shocked — but not necessarily surprised. In the opening episode of season three of Tensions Transplanted, **Rob Kaldor** and **Izzy Oderberg** begin…
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Van BadhamGuest
Hamza HawariGuest
Izzy OderbergHostMichelle GrossmanGuest
Zachary SchafferGuest
Rob KaldorHost
Julian LeeserGuest
Let's get into episode one, an overview of December 14 and the immediate aftermath.
I don't think I was the only Jew in Australia to say I was shocked by what happened at Bondi.
I don't think you could have not been shocked, but I always said to people that I wasn't surprised, and I felt that there was a real sense that this was coming, and I know a lot of other Jews felt the same way.
Michelle Grossman AM is an academic who specializes in terrorism and terror-related research and study at Deakin University.
She's the co-convener of AVERT, which is Addressing Violent Extremism and Radicalization to Terrorism, and she's the research network director at the Center for Resilient and Inclusive Societies.
I was shocked, and I say that as a, a, a, a student, if you like, uh, of extremism and, and, and, and terrorism, um, ideology and pathways.
So one of the reasons I was as surprised as I was, um, is because I, I did not think there was anything...
First of all, um, we had already had, like, two years plus of, of protest, right? And a lot of very, very heightened rhetoric, which I regarded, and, and this is one of the benefits of living in a democratic society-
society-Uh, the right to protest, the right to make your voice heard, uh, the right to say what, uh, some people call awful but lawful things, uh, you know, that don't cross the line into, um, you know, don't cross a criminal threshold, I regard those as the safety valves, uh-
They allow people to have their say, um, and they allow people to attempt to, um, you know, express and influence, uh, political policy and political standpoints through peaceful means.
So my argument had been, "Look, we've, we- this has been going on," and there were, there were things happening, uh, overseas, uh, you know, in, in Gaza, um, you know, various points of intensification, and still we didn't really see the kind of spillover.
So the, the, the sense of feeling unsafe I thought was more related to the way in which people, Jewish people felt threatened and unsettled by the heightened rhetoric, yes? But not the actual threat of fi- of, of what we saw, uh, the atrocity that we saw at Bondi.
Even, like, so how did you, how does, like, the attacks on synagogues and things like that, how does that play into that?
Um, so first of all, we know that some of the, not all, but some of those attacks turned out, you know, they turned out to ...
Let's get into episode one, an overview of December 14 and the immediate aftermath.
I don't think I was the only Jew in Australia to say I was shocked by what happened at Bondi.
I don't think you could have not been shocked, but I always said to people that I wasn't surprised, and I felt that there was a real sense that this was coming, and I know a lot of other Jews felt the same way.
Michelle Grossman AM is an academic who specializes in terrorism and terror-related research and study at Deakin University.
She's the co-convener of AVERT, which is Addressing Violent Extremism and Radicalization to Terrorism, and she's the research network director at the Center for Resilient and Inclusive Societies.
I was shocked, and I say that as a, a, a, a student, if you like, uh, of extremism and, and, and, and terrorism, um, ideology and pathways.
So one of the reasons I was as surprised as I was, um, is because I, I did not think there was anything...
First of all, um, we had already had, like, two years plus of, of protest, right? And a lot of very, very heightened rhetoric, which I regarded, and, and this is one of the benefits of living in a democratic society-
society-Uh, the right to protest, the right to make your voice heard, uh, the right to say what, uh, some people call awful but lawful things, uh, you know, that don't cross the line into, um, you know, don't cross a criminal threshold, I regard those as the safety valves, uh-
They allow people to have their say, um, and they allow people to attempt to, um, you know, express and influence, uh, political policy and political standpoints through peaceful means.
So my argument had been, "Look, we've, we- this has been going on," and there were, there were things happening, uh, overseas, uh, you know, in, in Gaza, um, you know, various points of intensification, and still we didn't really see the kind of spillover.
So the, the, the sense of feeling unsafe I thought was more related to the way in which people, Jewish people felt threatened and unsettled by the heightened rhetoric, yes? But not the actual threat of fi- of, of what we saw, uh, the atrocity that we saw at Bondi.
Even, like, so how did you, how does, like, the attacks on synagogues and things like that, how does that play into that?
Um, so first of all, we know that some of the, not all, but some of those attacks turned out, you know, they turned out to ...
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