Maya Shankar: What Happens When Life Changes Our Plans?

Ten years ago, Vivek and Maya Shankar met in a meeting at the White House; he still doesn't remember what the meeting was about, but he remembers being struck by her brilliance, and even more by her warmth. They stayed in touch, became close friends, and now, a decade later, Maya has traded her work as a cognitive scientist and White House advisor for a new mission: helping people understand why change is so hard, and how to come out the other side whole. She's the host of the hit podcast *A Slight Change of Plans* and the author of the instant *New York Times* bestseller *The Other Side of Change*. In this conversation, Vivek and Maya talk about why uncertainty can feel worse than bad news itself, and why anchoring our identity in our "why" rather than our "what" can carry us through loss and reinvention. They dig into the mental spirals we all fall into — and the small shifts in perspective that can break them — plus the crucial difference between guilt and shame, and why community and service are often the surest way out of both. Maya also shares deeply personal stories from her own life, including experiences she writes about for the first time in her book, and what she's come to believe change reveals about who we really are. It's a conversation about the hardest parts of being human: uncertainty, identity, rumination, and shame. It’s also about the quiet, durable hope that even unwanted change can show us who we're capable of becoming. .   .   . Every episode offers a reflection question inspired by the conversation. Share your thoughts and ideas with us at [**hello@stayinghuman.us**](mailto:hello@stayinghuman.us), on our Substack, or leave us a message at 1-833-74-HUMAN. IG @drvivekmurthy Substack vivekmurthy.substack.com/ More about your host, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://www.vivekmurthy.com