The Future of Legal Marketing (with LMA CEO, Ashley Stenger)

But what surprised you most, just in general, about, about legal marketing and business development?

Well, when I first came on, which was now, I don't know, seven years ago, there was still this conversation happening about like how do we get a seat at the table, or how do we break through? A lot of advocacy conversations happening, and I was so surprised by that.

Like, how, how could people not see the value, or how, who isn't seeing the value and why? And that really surprised me that it, I, I speaking with members on the board when I first started with LMA, talking about the challenges that they've had in their role and, and showing, you know, partners and firm leaders the importance and the value and how they're really driving growth.

So that just surprised me.

I mean, in that day and age, that should be a no-brainer, right? You know, it's funny, I've told this story before, but last year was LMA's 40th anniversary, and I was going through some old papers that people had sent over and photos and things like that.

And from the '80s there was a, a list of who sat on the board, and they didn't really usually have specific marketing titles.

It said like, "Coordinator of special projects." And so, you know, you, you just saw the evolution of the titles, and I think with that, the value that marketing and BD teams brought to the table.

But I was just shocked to see that 40 years later, almost 40 years later, there was still that, that feeling in, in people's minds.

And I, I think over the last seven years I've seen that conversation s- shift, and I don't see our community speaking about ourselves in that way anymore, which is amazing.

I love that.

But that, that surprised me when I started, is that there just seemed to be a lack of, of why, you know, or understanding within a firm of the importance of a marketer.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I think it's firm specific though t- too, right? And also, I think there's a, you know, there's a disparity sometimes between how the business developer, the legal marketers see themselves.

Like, we know that we're adding value, but also when you're relationship focused, it's a long time to, to prove that ROI.

Essentially, if you're in a firm that wants to see, you know, every dollar count, it can be hard and tricky sometimes to say, "Well, we did this program, and we feel like it was a success," but we can't actually equate any dollars to it.

And so if people are just only looking at that, it get, becomes, you know, it becomes really hard.

But I also think it depends on the firm that you're at too, right? And so I'm glad to hear that the last seven years people have shifted more towards maybe even accelerating or elevating their roles at the table instead of just like, how do we get in the room, right? Then it's like, how do you get to the table? And now how do you h- have your voice heard at the table, right? It's each of these kind of incremental, incremental steps.

So I feel like that's a positive change or step.

I mean, I think LMA has a lot to do with that too.

So, I mean, kudos to you and the team.

And a sho- and a shout-out to Eric.

I love Eric.

[laughs]

Doesn't he great? He is just like a sparkling joy on the team.

But what surprised you most, just in general, about, about legal marketing and business development?

Well, when I first came on, which was now, I don't know, seven years ago, there was still this conversation happening about like how do we get a seat at the table, or how do we break through? A lot of advocacy conversations happening, and I was so surprised by that.

Like, how, how could people not see the value, or how, who isn't seeing the value and why? And that really surprised me that it, I, I speaking with members on the board when I first started with LMA, talking about the challenges that they've had in their role and, and showing, you know, partners and firm leaders the importance and the value and how they're really driving growth.

So that just surprised me.

I mean, in that day and age, that should be a no-brainer, right? You know, it's funny, I've told this story before, but last year was LMA's 40th anniversary, and I was going through some old papers that people had sent over and photos and things like that.

And from the '80s there was a, a list of who sat on the board, and they didn't really usually have specific marketing titles.

It said like, "Coordinator of special projects." And so, you know, you, you just saw the evolution of the titles, and I think with that, the value that marketing and BD teams brought to the table.

But I was just shocked to see that 40 years later, almost 40 years later, there was still that, that feeling in, in people's minds.

And I, I think over the last seven years I've seen that conversation s- shift, and I don't see our community speaking about ourselves in that way anymore, which is amazing.

I love that.

But that, that surprised me when I started, is that there just seemed to be a lack of, of why, you know, or understanding within a firm of the importance of a marketer.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I think it's firm specific though t- too, right? And also, I think there's a, you know, there's a disparity sometimes between how the business developer, the legal marketers see themselves.

Like, we know that we're adding value, but also when you're relationship focused, it's a long time to, to prove that ROI.

Essentially, if you're in a firm that wants to see, you know, every dollar count, it can be hard and tricky sometimes to say, "Well, we did this program, and we feel like it was a success," but we can't actually equate any dollars to it.

And so if people are just only looking at that, it get, becomes, you know, it becomes really hard.

But I also think it depends on the firm that you're at too, right? And so I'm glad to hear that the last seven years people have shifted more towards maybe even accelerating or elevating their roles at the table instead of just like, how do we get in the room, right? Then it's like, how do you get to the table? And now how do you h- have your voice heard at the table, right? It's each of these kind of incremental, incremental steps.

So I feel like that's a positive change or step.

I mean, I think LMA has a lot to do with that too.

So, I mean, kudos to you and the team.

And a sho- and a shout-out to Eric.

I love Eric.

[laughs]

Doesn't he great? He is just like a sparkling joy on the team.