Remarkable World Commentary Episode #113: Interview with Shaun Kelly, Pottery Instructor, SoKo Pottery Studio

**🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #113: Interview with Shaun Kelly, Pottery Instructor, SoKo Pottery Studio** https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-09-21-2026/ In this heartfelt episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA welcomes her pottery instructor, Shaun Kelly, of SoKo Pottery Studio, who shares how clay first came into his life through his mother, and how a career as a programmer and IT project manager that kept him always on call, and at 350 pounds, gave way on his doctor's advice to a healthier life in pottery. He credits his first teacher, Pauline Harman, for the projects-and-templates approach he still uses with beginners, and his mentor, Sandi Dunkelman, for teaching him everything from throwing to loading kilns, making glazes and running a sale. Shaun talks listeners through centering clay on the wheel and his "wiggle, wiggle, wiggle" method for rolling an even slab, describes how simple pinch pots helped a man named Ricardo rebuild his motor skills after a stroke, and remembers Studio on the Hill as a safe space where everyone who walked in the door was a potter. He explains how SoKo, named for his initials, became his own studio when he took it on on May 1st, and shares plans for a Christmas show and sale on November 6th, 7th and 8th, a possible spring sale and an Empty Bowls fundraiser, while Donna looks ahead to her Canadiana line. **TRANSCRIPT** **Podcast Commentator:** Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA invites you to listen to her bi-weekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access, technology, and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Remarkable World Commentary. I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate, and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch, and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, an accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November of 2010, I won the landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to the removal of barriers. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio, you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal, and that is to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench, where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a quick spotlight on today's guest, a changemaker whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. I am absolutely pleased and excited to welcome my pottery instructor, Shaun Kelly. Welcome, Shaun, to the Remarkable World Commentary podcast. **Shaun Kelly:** Thank you very much, Donna, for having me today. It's been a long time coming, and I'm excited to be part of the program. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** You changed my life when we met. You have forced me to stretch my imagination and to use my imagination, based on the functional vision I had before I lost it, to develop pieces, to create, and there's no limit to what we've been able to do over the last few years. **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. And that's the beauty of pottery, is it's a metaphor for life. We're always evolving, adapting, growing. The only time you lose is when you say, "I can't do it." You gotta push through, right? And we gotta find a way to do it. **Shaun Kelly:** And that's the beauty, is both you and myself, I've learned how to express, to communicate, to look and... I shouldn't say to look at things differently, to hear things differently, to feel things differently. To express things differently. Just because there's one way, a common way, doesn't mean there's several other ways that might even be better. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Absolutely. So Shaun, I would like to start right at the beginning, long before any of this was your work. Tell me how clay first turned up in your life, and what happened in that very first class that made you want to come back the following week? **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah, so I was very fortunate that my mom, she always had a love for pottery. And she said, "Come, come, come." And it was like, "Yes, I'm coming. I'm gonna be there." And then during that first class, you could build, right? You could build, you could create. You had the freedom to do what you wanted to do. And you literally had the tools in front of you to accomplish whatever that vision was. And doing this in a shared space, a group space, it had a lovely community feel. You got to meet people. You got to talk with people. And you learned from everybody. And from that first time, it was just like a lovely, humble family safe space that you could create anything you wanted in. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Now, was she a potter? Was your mom a potter? **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah, she was. She loved the pottery. She collected it first. And then she started to be a potter, and then both my brother and myself got involved. But I got hooked hard. I took it even further than just the therapeutic side, the hobby side. I went on to do it more professionally. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Oh, okay. Now, you made a big turn in your life from working with technology to working with clay, and I know something about turns like that, because I have made a few of my very own. Walk me through how that turn actually happened for you. Not the tidy version, but the real one. **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. So it was a big decision, right? When you pivot, when you change your career, your field of study, it's a big, big life-changing moment. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** It is. It is. **Shaun Kelly:** And for me, it was slowly building. In my corporate life, in the life as a programmer, there was no leaving the building for lunch. No going to the gym. I was always on call, even on weekends. You had to be within an hour on call all the time. So I couldn't go afar. I couldn't go on vacations, and it really took a heavy toll on my life in terms of my health. Right? So I had money, right? I had a lovely career, but I had no time to spend it or to actually enjoy it. And it got to the point where I was 350 pounds. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Oh, my lord. **Shaun Kelly:** It was just like, "What happened?" So it was like, my doctor said, "You have to make a life choice. You have to decide," right? "What are you gonna do?" And I chose a life, a healthy life. And that's what pottery gave me. Mentally, physically, it gave me that healthy lifestyle, that balance, right? That I think a lot of people need. Right? And all of us, like myself in my early days, I was just running, running, running, trying to get to the finish line, trying to make the buck. And I don't think that's what life was for me. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Yeah, I can empathize with that. My goodness. I still remember how clumsy my own hands felt the first time \[laughs] that I tried to center a lump of clay, and I doubt that you were born knowing how to do, either. Take me back to when the wheel was still new to you. What did you do over and over and again to get from clumsy to steady? **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. And you're completely right. I was not a natural on the wheel by any means. I was very clumsy on the wheel. Trying to figure it out. And part of it is trying to center yourself so you can center the clay. So sometimes if you have a bad day, if you're distracted, if you can't focus, that can really throw off the work you're trying to do on the wheel. **Shaun Kelly:** So for me, I took a whole summer and I said to myself, "I'm gonna throw a bowl. I'm gonna make a bowl." And if I didn't, I'd scrap it and try again. And I just kept telling myself, "You know what? I can make a bowl. I can make a mug. I can make a cylinder." And I didn't give up. I just kept pursuing that. And I got closer and closer and closer until finally I achieved it, where by the end of that summer I could sit down, and say I wanted to make a bowl and I would make that bowl. And like you say, it's the repetition, the practice. A lot of it is muscle memory. So even for me now, I'll close my eyes and use my hands to feel the clay to reassure myself that, yes, I can do it. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I guess you know how much I detest the wheel, don't you? **Shaun Kelly:** \[laughs] I hear you. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** But I— **Shaun Kelly:** But sometimes we can't let it get the better of us. And it's a tough journey, I have to admit. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Well, I think that one of these days I will say, "Okay, wheel, I'm coming," you know? But right now... yeah. No, but I think you're right, absolutely right. Wow. **Shaun Kelly:** And when you get it, the success, that achievement, like, "Yes, I've done it," it's really worth it. Yep. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I'll keep that in mind for my New Year resolution. How's that? **Shaun Kelly:** Wonderful. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Now, almost every potter I know can name the one teacher who got them started, and for me, that person changed everything. You called Pauline Harman your teacher. What did she do in a class that you still catch yourself doing with your own students today? **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah. So Pauline Harman was my first teacher, my first official pottery teacher. And she was a hand builder. So as a hand builder, it's like baking, where you roll out a piece of clay to create like a sheet of clay. And she would have wonderful projects and templates every week. So she'd have like a mug, a bowl, a vase, as something that you would be able to cut out and to create and to form into a vase or a bowl. And what was wonderful about it is even though you got the template, the basic shape of it, you could then design it. You could add texture to it. You could add creative elements to it. You could make it your own. **Shaun Kelly:** And even today, I try to focus on projects and templates in my formal classes this way, because it's a great way for someone just starting out to find it approachable, right? Because sometimes it can be overwhelming. All these new tools, all these new materials, everything is so different in the beginning. But as soon as you can just create or start creating a form, you know you can do the rest, that the rest will come together. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** But I think the approach that you and I have adopted is one where we use our imagination to say, "Well, what are we gonna do?" It's not necessarily templates. I mean, you offer me templates, but it's all about imagining and visualizing and going from there, right? **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. So you can add to them, right? You can add elements to the template. You can carve the template. Right? That's just the beginning. And then after that, everyone has a different piece. Every piece is unique and one of a kind. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Right, right, right. Now, you call Sandi Dunkelman your mentor. And to be a mentor is a very different thing from being a teacher. What has she given you that no class you could ever have signed up for would have given you? **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah. So my friends and everyone else, they like to say that I won the jackpot when Sandi Dunkelman became my mentor. Because it was just like a perfect match. Right? And she's an incredible thrower. Very determined, very driven, a perfectionist, a woman who speaks her mind. And it was just perfection. I mean, it allowed me to have direction and guidance. Right? So as she threw every week, and as she created items, whether it be a lidded sugar dish or a salad bowl, I would follow along, and I would learn all the steps all the way along. So she could do it all, and I learned as much as I could from her. I was like a dry sponge. Anything she was willing to do, I was willing to do with her. So that created just a very natural roadmap of what I needed to do and how to do it. **Shaun Kelly:** And it was in a cooperative space. So along the way, we would learn. She would show me how to load and unload kilns. How to make glazes. How to set up a sale, how to run a sale. Everything that involved the studio, she knew how to do. And it was just wonderful. So coming and going, it was a friendship, a lifelong friendship. And we would have lunch together. We would share stories. And we would be there for each other. And it was way beyond just making pottery, right? A sense of community. Being almost a family. **Shaun Kelly:** And it's that support outside of pottery that was very, very helpful, especially when transitioning from a career of IT project manager to pottery. To have that mentor was priceless. And above all, she also had a critical eye. She speaked her mind and the truth. So if it was a hard truth I needed, it was a hard truth I got. So it was wonderful. And if you can find a mentor, I would take it. Take it in a heartbeat. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** But that was quite a switch though, from IT to pottery. **Shaun Kelly:** It was a huge switch. And it was one that my health needed. My health, my body, my soul, it needed that change. It needed that reflection. And it made the world of difference. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Wow. Now I'm just sitting here thinking of my own self. I mean, I don't know. \[laughs] Let's move on. \[laughs] **Shaun Kelly:** Okay. \[laughs] **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** People assume that someone who worked with computers and someone who works with clay have nothing in common. And I have never, ever believed that for a second. Tell me about one way of thinking you carried out of your years in technology that still shapes how you run a class today. And walk me through it in action. **Shaun Kelly:** Definitely. As a programmer, it was very logical. You had inputs, you had processes, and you had output. Right? Everything was very clear. And so it was the same idea. In a structured class, I could break down the process of a piece. Right? It could be the demonstration, right? Where it would be step one, we would roll out the clay. Right? Step two, you would cut the clay to size and maybe wrap it around your form or place it in your form. Step three would be maybe to assemble it, to score and slip and join all the pieces together. And step four might be to decorate it, to finish, to finalize it. Create that output. **Shaun Kelly:** So even when it comes to teaching nowadays, the week before or the night before, I'll always go through the project myself, step by step. I'll time myself. And I'll ask myself, "Is it fair to say, well, here's half an hour," if it took me a half hour to do? Right? So I know it might be it's an hour I'll give people, right? If it took me 30 minutes, they'll get an hour, just because of the time needed. So being able to break it down logically, to look at the pieces and just figure out how we get from beginning to end, that has made the teaching process fundamentally easier. I just don't sit there, make it, and say, "Okay, guys, good job. You go do it." Right? We'll go step by step. And along the way, we try to make it easier for people. And everybody has a different way of doing things. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Yeah. That's very true. I'm listening carefully as you're saying this. I mean, as a programmer, isn't it step by step as well? **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. So carrying that along and logically. And then if we do run into a problem, right, it would then come back to the beginning and asking a similar question and getting a different direction. So being able to think about things logically has really, really helped. Even that creative side, right, to be able to come back to somebody and say, "Well, which path would they take? Which direction would they go in?" Rather than just throwing ideas out. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I want you to teach my listeners something right now. Someone out there has never touched clay and is quietly picturing complete disaster. So talk them through exactly what your hands do in the first minute with a lump of clay the way you would talk me through standing at the wheel. **Shaun Kelly:** Yep, exactly. So in the beginning, we wanna make you as comfortable as possible. Right? We want you to sit properly, to feel at one with the wheel. We don't wanna force you to create something. Our goal is to match the clay to the wheel itself. To sort of center it. And part of this is even easier if you were to close your eyes. And often, if your eyes are open, you can have an optical illusion as though it's wobbling or that it's not centered. But when you just use your hands, when you touch something, your hands won't lie to you. Right? Which is thankful. Very, very thankful. **Shaun Kelly:** And so we'll try to place the clay on the wheel, centered in the middle. And we just spin the wheel. Our hands are wet so that we aren't sticking to the clay. And we squeeze the clay at the 3:00 and 9:00 positions. That's sort of on the left and the right. We squeeze our hands in. Sort of cupping the clay. And that way the clay gets a sense of it wants to be in the middle. It wants to be centered. It wants to be steady. **Shaun Kelly:** Some of the things that I've made a mistake in is I try to push too hard. I try to force the clay to be something it doesn't wanna be. And it bounces back at me. Almost like a speed bump, right? It pushes back. So just if I can squeeze my hands and hold them steady, the clay will eventually form to your hands. So we let the clay and the wheel come to us rather than trying to sculpt it into something it doesn't wanna be. **Shaun Kelly:** And so the trick is, you'll hear people say this over and over again. Center yourself, lock in your arms. Do this, do that. But what does it really mean? What it means is our body has to be still. We have to be able to keep our body from moving. So if you find your arms are bouncing or you're rocking back and forth, then we're not centered ourselves. Then the clay is gonna be rocking back and forth or shifting. So once we can squeeze our hands together and hold them steady and our body is steady, then that's almost half the battle there. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Wow. This is so interesting. I bet a lot of us don't really think of all this, right? Until we're put to the test, right? **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. And like I say, some people will watch videos, and they'll throw out these terms. What does it actually mean? It's not until we're on the wheel, we're like, "Oh, now I understand. I can feel the way the wheel pushes against me." Right? Or the way the clay moves, and how it may go out of control sometimes. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** But what about for a hand builder like myself, how would you describe that? **Shaun Kelly:** The hand building process? **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Yes. **Shaun Kelly:** So I find that very... I try to slow myself down. I find it very relaxing. So for me, I find if I rush it, that my piece of clay is uneven. But very similar to the wheel. I try to use a rolling pin. **Speaker 4:** Use a \[patient mat? 00:25:33]. \[Red?] **Shaun Kelly:** I'll roll it. I call it wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. So I'll put it in the middle. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. So it's opening up. And I'll lift the clay up and do a quarter turn, and I'll wiggle, wiggle, wiggle in the middle. So the idea is that we're slowly spreading the clay out evenly. That quarter turn helps to make it an even spread of expansion. As well, it helps to prevent the clay from sticking to the surface itself. **Shaun Kelly:** So the clay, it's wet. It's moist. And it wants to stick to the tabletop. So if you just keep rolling it, and it's stuck to the tabletop, it won't move. It won't get any bigger, right? It won't become even, like a nice even sheet of pastry. And so the secret for me is that wiggle, wiggle, wiggle three or four times, quarter turn rotate. I find that I get a lovely even sheet of slab almost every time. And for me, it's not a thick sheet of clay or a thin sheet of clay, it's that evenness. Right? That evenness makes it stronger, more durable. And it just feels lovely. And so from that very sheet, you can create almost anything you want. **Shaun Kelly:** That's the beauty with hand building. I think from vases to ornaments to Christmas trees to pumpkins to lidded jars. Right? It's all just based on a few forms, like a cylinder, a ball, a square. So we can take simple forms and make anything we want out of them. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I think I remember you telling me, "Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle," and you'd see what happens after that. **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** And make a quarter turn. Yeah. **Shaun Kelly:** And it works. I mean, we have a large group of cognitive and cognitively impaired. And it's wonderful, right? That terminology. They go like, "I can remember wiggle, wiggle, wiggle." Right? And in a group they can all be like, "Just remember, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle." Right? Almost like a little song happening. And it makes it easier for them to remember, to accomplish. And the easier we can make it, the more fun we can make it, the better the results. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Now, Studio on the Hill was started in 1996 by Sister Helen, and she directed it for 25 years before she retired. And I have spent plenty of my own hours in that building since then. Tell me how you first came through those doors and what that place already was by the time you got there. **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah. So I was lucky enough to meet Sister Helen through Tucker's Pottery, a previous employment I was at. It's a pottery supply house. And we talked, and we talked, and we decided, yes, I'd love to teach the evening classes. Right? So she'd have late night classes, sort of 7:00 to 9:00. And it was a wide range of people. A great diverse community, right? It wasn't just all seniors or... It was everybody, all ages, all walks of life. And like I said, it was a great community. It was a safe space for learning and creativity. There was always cookies and tea and coffee. **Shaun Kelly:** And the idea was to welcome you in, right? As a Sister of St. Joseph's, they cared about every person. Every walk of life. Everybody could come in. Everybody could do this. And to have that space, the inclusivity, right, was really key for a lot of people. Because they weren't shunned, right? They weren't labeled. Right? When you walked in the door, you were a potter. And you were welcomed. And it showed, right? Everybody came back because of that, right? They didn't necessarily come because they wanted to become a master potter, but they came because it was a safe space, a community, almost a family where they could come and enjoy, and yeah. Create art. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I think that's exactly how I feel. I don't feel as if I'm the blind lady doing pottery. I'm just another potter. And I've met so many lovely people since being at your studio. **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah, and sometimes the labels aren't even visible. We've had a lot of individuals with cancer and cancer treatments. And for them, not being made to feel helpless. People are like, "Let me help you. Oh, you can't do this, you can't do that. You're too fragile." When they come here, it's like, you know what? They can do it. Right? They're a potter, and it's just so freeing to be a potter and not being a cancer survivor or someone in cancer treatment, right? **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** That's amazing. That is certainly a different approach to life, and I wish we could spread the word more and get people to try and follow this philosophy. I think it's beautiful, you know? **Shaun Kelly:** I agree. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Now, Fontbonne Ministries' annual report tells the story of a man named Ricardo who was working to get his motor skills back after a stroke, and it credits you with teaching him the techniques that helped. My hands do all of my seeing, so I want the detail. Walk me through what you actually changed for him. **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah. So a lot of clay is a metaphor for life, and so simple things can really impact us and affect us. And one of the basic things we do in pottery is a pinch pot. We kind of start with a simple, humble pinch pot where you make a ball of clay. You just roll it in between your hands. And you take your fingers, and you kinda press a little circle. You twist and press a circle in. And then you start to pinch and open it up. And that's sort of where it started in terms of the strength and building the strength back in the fingers and getting the idea of fine motor skills, to make that pot even and to see the results. **Shaun Kelly:** And then he could make them bigger, right? He could make bigger pots, better pots. He could hand build with us, right, by rolling out the slab, right? Again, using the strength, creating a nice even slab. Everything was building up, including his confidence. Right? Because sometimes people, they're like, "I can't do this." And it's like, no, you can. Just go ahead. There's no harm. It's just clay. Anything you do, we can always just ball up and try again. Right? There's absolutely no harm in going for it and trying it. And even if it falls down, that's fine, right? You test your limits, right? You see where you can go. **Shaun Kelly:** And then by the time we got to the wheel, right, that challenged everything. His strength, his arms, his motor skills, right? The control on the wheel. And by that time, which was like our third or fourth week, you're in a community. You're in sort of a safe space, and everybody supports you. Everybody's like, "Yeah, you can do this." And they offer you tips and tricks, and they're there right next to you on the wheel. And you know you're not alone, right? You have all those people here, and it really makes a huge difference having that support from the group. **Shaun Kelly:** And he formed a friendship with... There was four of them, that every week they'd come, they'd meet here, they would do their pottery, and then they would go out to lunch after and grab something to eat. And it just became a part of life. Right? And then you wanna get back into life. You wanna do it, and you had a reason to work towards it. And yeah, it was just wonderful. All these little stories are wonderful where it changes somebody life. **Shaun Kelly:** And pottery, I've heard people describe it as fluff. And it's like, you know what? It's not really. If you want it to be fluff, if you want it just to be an Instagram moment, that's your choice. But it can be a lot more, and it just depends on what people need and what they're willing to get from it. Yeah, I love it. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I think when I started off, before I even met you, I wasn't sure what the heck I wanted to get out of pottery. But after the pottery studio closed down, the first one that I attended, and then I met Sister Helen. I don't remember how I met— oh, it was Joan, what's her last name? Spears, who introduced me to Sister, and then you came along. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** And I kinda started thinking, "What am I gonna do here? What do I wanna get out of this?" And I have gotten what I wanted. I wanna stretch my imagination. I want to create. I wanna do things. And I see that the clock is starting to wind down, but I wanna ask you this. You now have your own studio. Is it SoKo you pronounce it? **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah, SoKo Pottery. https://sokopottery.com. And those are my initials, Shaun Kelly, S-K. And the \[O's? 00:36:49] became... they were periods in the beginning for my initials. It was sort of my rebellious act against my early art teachers. And so I kept it. I kept it. I grew it. And it just stuck, it just worked. Like the pottery itself, it kind of evolved with me over the years. And now I sign all my work SoKo. And it became a part of who I am now. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** So how long has SoKo been in business? **Shaun Kelly:** So SoKo has been in business for a while. So I started my own work, my own studio, before COVID, probably five, 10 years before COVID. So I started my studio. And had an opportunity with Tucker's Pottery. And I went to Tucker's Pottery, the supply house, to do everything there. To make the glazes, to learn everybody in the industry, and to connect with everybody. And then from there I came here to help lead the new way for Studio on the Hill and Sister Helen and the Sisters of St. Joseph's. **Shaun Kelly:** And then just in May, May 1st of this year, I had the great opportunity of taking it on. Creating SoKo Pottery again in its physical space. So I'm very lucky, I'm very blessed to have the life come naturally. It was very organic. And it was an experience I may not have expected. But it's one that I needed. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** So how has it been so far with SoKo? **Shaun Kelly:** Oh, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. To be able to sort of create your own direction. To have control over your own destiny. Right? It's a lot of responsibility. But it's wonderful to know. Just from paying the bills, right? The hydro bills, the day to day. But that balances off with being able to make the decisions of, will we have workshops? What other groups can we bring in? Could it be Covenant House? Could it be Princess Margaret? **Shaun Kelly:** We wanna continue the spirit that Sister Helen and Studio on the Hill set. Of the community groups and other people all in the same space. Right? We don't wanna ostracize this person there and that person here. Everybody's a potter. And so we're looking at ways to lead that charge. And to go into the future. It's gonna be a wonderful model because there's so many pottery studios out there. We wanna set ourselves apart. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Absolutely. So— **Shaun Kelly:** And I think that's one of the ways we're gonna do it. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** So give us some contact info. How can our listeners contact you? By phone, by email, and your website. **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah, definitely. So, S-O-K-O pottery dot com \[https://sokopottery.com]. That's our website. We have a schedule every month. We have workshops going on. We have different classes going on, whether it be individual classes. If you're worried and you wanna know how will I enjoy the experience, you can do one or two classes to try. We have a structured eight-week course. It allows you to have a sample of everything. The hand building, the wheel throwing, the glazing. It really gives you a well-rounded idea of the whole process. **Shaun Kelly:** So all of that's on the website. You can also reach us by phone. 647-945-1166. Right now we're open Monday to Fridays. That's when a lot of the community groups operate. So we've kept our hours the same to match them. In the future we're looking at expanding maybe into Saturdays, more evenings, we feel, yeah, to increase the accessibility for everybody. And it's gonna be an exciting journey. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I could hear it in your voice. I really can. And I hope to be watching and being a part of it all, because I don't know how many years I've been with you now, but it has evolved into much more than an instructor, a student thing. I look at you as my friend. I look at you as my advisor. I ask you questions \[laughs] and you give me your unbiased advice. I've really, really enjoyed it. And I know you have a sale coming up, a Christmas sale in early November. Tell us about that. **Shaun Kelly:** Yep. So November 6th, 7th, and 8th. The studio and all their members are coming together collectively to have a show and sale of all our work and what we've been able to do. And so it's a great way to bring everybody together. To see everybody's work. Like for yourself, you come once a week. But there's people who come on all other days, other times. So it really allows everyone to see what everyone's accomplishing all at once. You can bring your friends. To say, "Look, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm a part of." And if you sell some pots, it helps to raise money for clay, for pottery, to help support the craft that we love. So I think everybody wins. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Yeah, definitely. **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah, and then when you come to the sale, you're looking for pieces that are unique. Something that you pick up and you say, "Oh, there's just something about this that I love." We're not looking for Walmart, where everything's the same or everything is this or everything is that. You want the piece to speak to you. Something that's gonna remind you of that day or that event or every sip of coffee. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Now, is this the only sale you'll be having each year, or are you planning other sales during the year? **Shaun Kelly:** So we're gonna start with the Christmas sale. And then in the future, there's also the possibility of a spring sale. I don't know if anyone else is feeling it, but time is going by so fast. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I know. I know. **Shaun Kelly:** And so we're gonna play it by ear. We're gonna see what the membership thinks. Does the timing work? Because it takes a lot, right? It's gonna take about a week or two, at least, to put the sale together. And during that time, the membership won't be able to pot. So we wanna make sure that it comes at a good time. And it's not disruptive, right? We don't want it to fall in the middle of a huge event or... so we're gonna keep it open. And it's a wonderful opportunity to have that. **Shaun Kelly:** And even fundraising events in the future, right? There's a fundraising event called Empty Bowls, where us potters create bowls. We donate them, and then we have chefs bring in soups and buns. And we help generate revenue for charity to help support the charitable programs that we do. And that's something we're looking into because it's a wonderful time when you can bring food and empty bowls. It's very much in tune with Fontbonne Ministries. And they deal with individuals who are housing and food insecure. And to be able to provide that alongside pottery, which is great for our mind, our body, our soul, is like the complete package. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I think this is marvelous, absolutely marvelous, and I'm not just looking forward to my Christmas, or your Christmas sale, and— **Shaun Kelly:** Oh, it's our Christmas sale, for sure. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Yeah, our Christmas sale. I'm really looking forward to that, and after that, I think you and I have discussed my Canadiana line, which I hope to start on after the Christmas sale. It's all about producing pieces that would sort of spark not just unity but patriotism in those who see them. **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. And that's what we need now, right? We need something that's going to be meaningful. Right? And yeah, to be proud to be Canadian. Yeah, I think this is a great time to be proud and to be Canadian. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I agree, and I am just... I could jump out of my chair right now 'cause I'm so excited for you. And like I said, you've changed my life in many, many ways. I mean, I— **Shaun Kelly:** And same for you. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Well, I never thought that I would get to like pottery that much. I mean, I look forward to it every week, and I look forward to chatting with you and others around me and laughing and joking and all kinds of things. It's great. Absolutely great. **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah, it's a wonderful community. Even if somebody's missing, it's like, well, where's Cathy or where's Lee or where's— **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Where's Cooper? **Shaun Kelly:** Exactly. It's wonderful to have that connection with people. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** I'd like to invite you back after the Christmas sale sometime in the new year to tell us how it went. **Shaun Kelly:** Yep, count me in. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** And I wanna hear about your plans. I think this is just a very, very unique way to bring people together. In a world where people are so darn busy, they don't get time to breathe or think. **Shaun Kelly:** Yeah, exactly. We're all in that race. To get more money, more this, more that. We just have to realize we have a lot already. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** That's right, so let's share it around us. And let's appreciate what we have, right? **Shaun Kelly:** Absolutely. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Shaun, it has been a pleasure, a privilege— **Shaun Kelly:** As always. Thank you, Donna. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** —to have you here. No, I mean it. And I come every Thursday now. I used to come on a Monday, but now it's Thursday, which is great. And we'll talk more about this, and I wanna thank you for having stopped by. **Shaun Kelly:** Thank you so much. Always a wonderful time, Donna. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Okay. You take care, and we'll see you in the next few days. **Shaun Kelly:** Sounds great. Thank you. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Take care now. **Shaun Kelly:** Take care. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Bye, Shaun. **Shaun Kelly:** Bye, Donna. **Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA:** Bye-bye. **Podcast Commentator:** Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.