704: 111.00 Dr. Wendy Smith on The Both & Mindset: How Great Leaders Navigate Complexity
Jul 28, 2026 · 1 hr 16 min · 13 segments
**GUEST:** Dr. Wendy Smith is one of the world's foremost researchers on leadership, paradox and organizational change. She is the Dana J. Johnson Professor of Management at the University of…
**GUEST:** Dr. Wendy Smith is one of the world's foremost researchers on leadership, paradox and organizational change. She is the Dana J. Johnson Professor of Management at the University of Delaware and co-author of the influential book **Both/And Thinking**, which explores how leaders navigate competing demands in an increasingly complex world. In this conversation, we explore why many of leadership's hardest decisions are not problems with a single correct answer but paradoxes that require holding multiple truths simultaneously. Wendy explains the important distinction between tensions, dilemmas and paradoxes, and introduces the idea of Both & Thinking as a practical approach for navigating complexity. She shares why leaders often become trapped in binary thinking and describes the three common patterns she calls Rabbit Holes, Wrecking Balls and Trench Warfare. We also discuss why today's world makes paradoxes more visible than ever, how leaders can build what Wendy calls a paradox mindset, and why simply changing the questions we ask can unlock more creative solutions. Throughout the conversation, Deepak connects these ideas with his own FLAVOUR framework for leading a full life, exploring how work, family, aspirations, health and relationships are deeply interconnected rather than competing priorities. This episode is for leaders, managers, founders, coaches and anyone seeking better ways to make decisions in an increasingly uncertain and interconnected world. **Published in July 2026.** **ABOUT THE PODCAST:** The podcast has been functional since 2016. We are one of the (if not the only one) podcasts that break a conversation down into small pieces of content and reorganise them by theme. To know more you can visit www.playtopotential.com and see the Curated Playlists section. While the full conversations on Apple, Spotify and other platforms are open access, the curated insights require membership. **HOST:** Deepak Jayaraman, the host of this podcast series, works with Leaders and Organizations with a growth mindset and helps them play to their full potential. He strives to spend significant upfront energy in understand the nuances of the context and then armed with the mutual trust and understanding of the context, strives to be of value as a (behind the scenes and discreet) Coach / Sounding Board for their journeys. LinkedIn profile here. **OTHER GUESTS:** 1.Vijay Amritraj 2.Amish Tripathi 3.Raghu Raman 4.Papa CJ 5.Kartik Hosanagar 6.Ravi Venkatesan 7.Abhijit Bhaduri 8.Viren Rasquinha 9.Prakash Iyer 10.Avnish Bajaj 11.Nandan Nilekani 12.Atul Kasbekar 13.Karthik Reddy 14.Pramath Sinha 15.Vedika Bhandarkar 16.Vinita Bali 17.Zia Mody 18.Rama Bijapurkar 19.Dheeraj Pandey 20.Anu Madgavkar 21.Vishy Anand 22. Meher Pudumjee 23.KV Shridhar (Pops) 24.Suresh Naraynan 25.Devdutt Pattanaik 26.Jay Panda 27.Amit Chandra 28.Chandramouli Venkatesan 29.Roopa Kudva 30.Vinay Sitapati 31.Neera Nundy. 32.Deepa Malik 33.Bombay Jayashri. 34.Arun Maira 35.Ambi Parameswaran 36.OP Bhaat 37.Indranil Chakraborty 38.Tarun Khanna 39. Ramachandra Guha 40. Stewart Friedman 41. Rich Fernandez 42. Falguni Nayar 43. Rajat Gupta 44. Kartik Hosanagar 45. Michael Watkins 46. Matt Dixon 47. Herminia Ibarra 48. Paddy Upton 49. Tasha Eurich 50. Alan Eagle 51. Sudhir Sitapati 52. James Clear 53. Lynda Gratton 54. Jennifer Petriglieri. 55. Matthew Walker 56. Raj Raghunathan 57. Jennifer Garvey Berger 58. BJ Fogg 59. R Gopolakrishnan 60. Sir Andrew Likierman. 61. Atul Khatri 62. Whitney Jonson 63. Venkat Krishnan 64. Marshall Goldsmith 65. Ashish Dhawan 66. Vinay Sitapati 67. Ashley Whillans 68. Tenzin Priyadarshi 69. Ramesh Srinivasan 70. Bruce Feiler 71. Sanjeev Aggarwal and T. N. Hari 72. Bill Carr 73. Jennifer Wetzler 74. Sally Helgesen 75. Dan Cable 76. Tom Vanderbilt 77. Darleen DeRosa 78. Amy Edmondson 79. Katy Milkman 80. Harish Bhatt 81. Lloyd Reeb 82. Sukhinder Cassidy 83. Harsh Mariwala 84. Rajiv Vij 85. Dorie Clark 86. Ayse Birsel 87. Ravi Venkatesan E2 88. Pradeep Chakravarthy 89. Dan Pink 90. Alisa Cohn 91. Ayelet Fishbach 92. Thomas Wedell-Wedellsborg 93. Raghu Ananthnarayanan 94. Tarun Khanna EP2 95. Manjari Jaruhar 96. Ethan Kross 97. David Bradford 98. Jeffrey Pfeffer 99. Michiel Kruyt 100. Christopher Clarey 101. Stephen M.R. Covey 102. David Noble & Carol Kauffman 103. Ricardo Sunderland 104. Neeraj Aggarwal 105. Jaspreet Bindra 106. Bill Burnett 107. Roopa Kudva EP2 108. Jennifer Garvey Berger EP 2 109. Hitendra Wadhwa 110. Viral Doshi DISCLAIMER All content and opinions expressed in the podcast are that of the guests and are not necessarily the opinions of Deepak Jayaraman and Transition Insight Private Limited. 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**GUEST:** Dr. Wendy Smith is one of the world's foremost researchers on leadership, paradox and organizational change. She is the Dana J. Johnson Professor of Management at the University of…
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