Patrick Daly Interlinks Podcast
Sep 2, 2026 · 29 min · 13 segments
In this episode of Interlinks, I am joined by Dr Matthew Jones, a licensed psychologist, co-founder coach, founder of Cofounder Clarity and author of *The Co-Founder Effect*. Matt helps startup…
Patrick DalyHost
So was there a particular moment or experience when you realised that kind of the relationship between co-founders presented a kind of distinct and seriously underserved problem? And how did that lead then to establishing co-founder clarity and rising the co-founder effect? And then you more recently developing the Institute for Founder Dynamics.
I mean, that's part of what was so fascinating to me whenever I watched my close friends go through these ups and downs.
Because then as a psychologist, you know, that part of my brain was, you know, seeing their patterns.
And I saw like what's called a pursue and withdraw dynamic and emotion focused couples therapy by Sue Johnson.
All of these different tools and frameworks that I'm learning in systems theory and various couples therapy modalities, they apply to this business relationship.
And based on what I can see, it seems to me as an outsider to be the most important relationship in business.
One that if you get it right, I see the synergistic effect in a positive direction where one plus one equals five, where all of a sudden you're rowing in the same direction in the same cadence.
And anyone who's been part of an effective team knows this feeling, sports or otherwise, where there's this infectious energy, where you're more resilient to stress because there's this collective mentality and a shared goal.
And I also observed with my friends Cole and Drew that when that relationship is not on solid ground, And when it's going really bad, the synergistic effect works in the opposite direction.
You know, it kind of creates this, you know, cascading effect in a negative direction.
And so to me, I saw, you know, this massive opportunity to work and support this relationships, which again, looks to be the most important relationship in business.
And as I've been doing this for the last six years, I've basically validated that hypothesis that then this is why I named the book, the co-founder effect, because there's no other relationship in business that is both responsible for the, for the teams like or in ceiling of their execution and an existential threat to the business's very existence.
And is this different from the dynamics you might see in a family business? Or do you deal with family businesses as well, where it might be spouses or brothers and sisters or parents and children?
And so, I mean, this is something fascinating because, you know, as it pertains to the Institute for Founder Dynamics, I'll bring that in and answer this question, which is I started seeing that there's a need in this field for more research into these relationships because it honestly doesn't exist.
So was there a particular moment or experience when you realised that kind of the relationship between co-founders presented a kind of distinct and seriously underserved problem? And how did that lead then to establishing co-founder clarity and rising the co-founder effect? And then you more recently developing the Institute for Founder Dynamics.
I mean, that's part of what was so fascinating to me whenever I watched my close friends go through these ups and downs.
Because then as a psychologist, you know, that part of my brain was, you know, seeing their patterns.
And I saw like what's called a pursue and withdraw dynamic and emotion focused couples therapy by Sue Johnson.
All of these different tools and frameworks that I'm learning in systems theory and various couples therapy modalities, they apply to this business relationship.
And based on what I can see, it seems to me as an outsider to be the most important relationship in business.
One that if you get it right, I see the synergistic effect in a positive direction where one plus one equals five, where all of a sudden you're rowing in the same direction in the same cadence.
And anyone who's been part of an effective team knows this feeling, sports or otherwise, where there's this infectious energy, where you're more resilient to stress because there's this collective mentality and a shared goal.
And I also observed with my friends Cole and Drew that when that relationship is not on solid ground, And when it's going really bad, the synergistic effect works in the opposite direction.
You know, it kind of creates this, you know, cascading effect in a negative direction.
And so to me, I saw, you know, this massive opportunity to work and support this relationships, which again, looks to be the most important relationship in business.
And as I've been doing this for the last six years, I've basically validated that hypothesis that then this is why I named the book, the co-founder effect, because there's no other relationship in business that is both responsible for the, for the teams like or in ceiling of their execution and an existential threat to the business's very existence.
And is this different from the dynamics you might see in a family business? Or do you deal with family businesses as well, where it might be spouses or brothers and sisters or parents and children?
And so, I mean, this is something fascinating because, you know, as it pertains to the Institute for Founder Dynamics, I'll bring that in and answer this question, which is I started seeing that there's a need in this field for more research into these relationships because it honestly doesn't exist.
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