Jun 23, 2026 · 38 min · 8 segments
Chasing happiness directly might be one of the worst ways to find it. In this episode of *Management Muse*, Cindi Baldi and Geoffrey Tumlin unpack why happiness is better understood as a byproduct…
Geoffrey TumlinHost
Cindi BaldiHost
I think best was explained by the late, great Daniel Kahneman, is basically you're not thinking about happiness that often.

And so why would you chase something you actually don't think of that much? Most of the time, we're not thinking about happiness.

And happiness, when we think about it, is just something that you're like, oh, okay, yeah, you know, this feels good.

I mean, it's usually in a moment where like it is extreme happiness, right? Like it's a moment where – It's a byproduct.

Like there have been moments – Where, you know, we've been doing, like, I have memories of going to Disney World with my dad.

And those are some of the happiest moments because we were just completely silly.

And so it's not that I didn't have happiness the other times, but you don't recognize it.

You're not paying attention to it until you're laughing so hard that you can't ignore it.

This is completely uncontroversial, and everybody listening to the show has heard some version of this over the years.


But their basic finding from those studies of tracking people's lives over 80 years or so is that relationships are the most – predictive element of, do you feel like you had a good life? Specifically, you need at least one reciprocal relationship where you feel like, I love this person, this person loves me.

If you have zero, the mortality of that, the mortality of having, that's called a social isolate, the mortality of that is higher than drinking Drugs, drinking, smoking, and drugs all put together.

I think best was explained by the late, great Daniel Kahneman, is basically you're not thinking about happiness that often.

And so why would you chase something you actually don't think of that much? Most of the time, we're not thinking about happiness.

And happiness, when we think about it, is just something that you're like, oh, okay, yeah, you know, this feels good.

I mean, it's usually in a moment where like it is extreme happiness, right? Like it's a moment where – It's a byproduct.

Like there have been moments – Where, you know, we've been doing, like, I have memories of going to Disney World with my dad.

And those are some of the happiest moments because we were just completely silly.

And so it's not that I didn't have happiness the other times, but you don't recognize it.

You're not paying attention to it until you're laughing so hard that you can't ignore it.

This is completely uncontroversial, and everybody listening to the show has heard some version of this over the years.


But their basic finding from those studies of tracking people's lives over 80 years or so is that relationships are the most – predictive element of, do you feel like you had a good life? Specifically, you need at least one reciprocal relationship where you feel like, I love this person, this person loves me.

If you have zero, the mortality of that, the mortality of having, that's called a social isolate, the mortality of that is higher than drinking Drugs, drinking, smoking, and drugs all put together.
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