Jennifer O’Connell: Lessons in Putting Women at the Heart of Health Research

Jenny, can we talk please about imperfection? And the reason I [laughs] want to talk about this is because when we came into this garden, somebody was explaining the design of the garden and they said, "Look, if you notice, you feel very calm in this garden," which we definitely do, but it's not perfect.

The paths are not perfect.

There's not straight lines.

Everything's slightly off.

There's no real symmetry in the way that we see symmetry.

It's just imperfect.

Like our bodies.

Like our bodies.

And they were making the point, you know, about our bodies as females are not perfect, but they are in their imperfection.

I think it's quite difficult for women, feeling like we have to be perfect all the time.

100%.

We are all over this.

So we're always thinking about, you know, what causes stress for women in their daily lives, and perfection culture is a massive issue.

We're all trying to keep up, and Instagram doesn't help because everybody's presenting the best side of themselves.

So what we've done actually in Sisterly, and it, it's so kind of in line with this, we're launching a podcast, um, this month, um, with Orla Kenny, and it's all about this idea of trying to reduce the stress on women by getting people to have honest conversations about what life is really like, and the stresses and the struggles, and what's worked and what hasn't.

And it's just about pulling back the curtain so that, you know the way you do have a real conversation with your girlfriend over a cup of coffee or something like that, and you get real? But those conversations are never really held in any kind of public forum, and they should be more, because we are all a little bit messy-

Mm

... and our authentic selves is where we're most happy.

So being giddy and goofy, if that's who you are-

Mm

... th- that should be allowed.

[laughs]

But where do you think it comes from, this striving for perfection which just, just ultimately is not real and doesn't exist? Where does it come from, do you think?

I think we've been set up on pedestals to be beautiful to look at and to be perfect in everything we do, and very measured and contained.

And it's kind of the rules of society that we've all been brought up with, and I think it's really time to rip up the rule book, and I think that that's one of the joys of getting older.