16. Embrace the awkward: Community, belonging, and radical welcome, with Joel Carnegie

Joel Carnegie—conductor, broadcaster, and storyteller—talks about Awkwardstra Geelong, a community orchestra that is quietly doing some of the most important social work in the business. Joel shares how he came to Awkwardstra after a demanding period in his professional life, and why the experience fundamentally changed how he thinks about music and leadership. This episode is a masterclass in what inclusive, values-driven music-making can look like in practice. Joel also reflects on his background as a storyteller and how narrative — including the music itself — can convey the value of community music in ways statistics simply can't. Drawing on his training in acting methods and voice work, he offers a thoughtful account of what it means to lead from the podium with empathy, clarity, and a willingness to sit with uncertainty. This conversation is full of practical wisdom and genuine inspiration. Key Topics Discussed - The origins of Awkwardstra Geelong and Joel's path to becoming its conductor - What radical inclusivity looks like in a community orchestra and the practical structures that support it - Managing a wide range of skill levels and experience: music selection, coaching programs, and section support - The "Awky Pass" and how the collective supports individual members facing financial barriers - The tension between musical quality and inclusivity and why it can be a generative rather than a destructive tension - The role of story in making the case for community music, including a commissioned piece built from players' own stories - How acting training and voice work inform Joel's practice as a conductor and ensemble leader - Empathy, clarity, and openness as core qualities in music leadership - What music leadership has to offer organisational leadership more broadly - Advice for young musicians interested in community music Notable Quotes "Making music for the joy of it, for creating connections across the community, and for offering people an opportunity to extend themselves — that's really what we're doing here." "The podium never lies. There's no one else you can really be except yourself up there." "We start every rehearsal by recognising that we've all had whatever happened during the day, and we take a moment to arrive into the space — intentionally — and remember that we're in physical bodies playing instruments that are physical." "Music allows us to feel. And when we can feel, we can connect with other people. We're in the business of feeling-making and moment-making." "People getting together and playing music is eternal. And those who are providing the structure for that to happen are creating guardrails and forms of resilience and resistance." "Just because it's not happening in Sydney or Melbourne doesn't mean it is not of value." Resources Mentioned - Awkwardstra Geelong — community orchestra based in Geelong, VIC - Kym Dillon — composer, pianist, and arranger who created a piece for Awkwardstra based on players' stories; performing with the orchestra again at the Geelong Arts Centre, 17 October 2026 - Pako Festa (Pakington Street Festival) — Geelong's largest street festival; Awkwardstra performed as a flash mob opening act - Ingrid Martin — Joel's conducting coach - ABC Classic Evenings — national radio program hosted by Joel Carnegie About Guest Joel Carnegie is a conductor, performer, and storyteller whose work spans live music, broadcasting, and community engagement. Each weeknight he hosts the national Evenings program on ABC Classic, and his storytelling work has earned recognition at the New York Festivals International Radio Awards and The Whickers, a prestigious international award for audio storytelling. From 2015 to 2024, Joel was Founder and Head of Storytelling at The Space Company, where he led the creation of music-rich podcasts, screen productions, and live stage works — including the nationally touring double bill Stardust + The Mission, which involved over 200 local musicians across 45 cities. A graduate of the Australia Council's Future Leaders program, he holds degrees from the University of Melbourne, Swinburne, and Deakin, with performance training in Graz, Austria. Joel is now the Conductor of Awkwardstra Geelong, a community orchestra built on a simple but radical idea: that making music together should be open to everyone. Connect with Guest https://www.joelcarnegie.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelcarnegie/ Episode Highlights \[00:01:47] How Awkwardstra began — and why Joel joined \[00:05:37] The philosophy behind the name and what inclusivity looks like in the rehearsal room \[00:14:57] Removing barriers: the Awky Pass, coaching programs, and community support \[00:18:09] Musical quality vs. inclusivity — a generative tension \[00:22:19] The power of story in community music, and commissioning Kim Dillon \[00:28:13] Why Joel pursued acting methods and voice training — and how they shape his leadership \[00:32:24] The most important qualities in a music leader: empathy, openness, clarity \[00:36:28] What music leadership offers that other leadership models don't \[00:39:23] Advice for young musicians