How do deans lead when the world turns upside down?

You know, I think like Darren, there is a way in which we're benefiting from this.

But I think in the long term, there really is a growth that's associated with this.

I think exactly as Darren said, in Canada, we need to think about the ways in which we diversify our funding sources.

We need to think about the ways in which We are more actively going out and raising money.

But I think more than anything else, scientists, not just scientists in South Africa, but including scientists in South Africa, are having to make active cases for the public benefit of the kind of science they do, which is something that perhaps they hadn't been having to do as publicly as they now do.

I think the same is true of business schools.

So although I don't have undergraduates in the way that Darren does, we are attracting more and more students from around the world.

We have students from Japan and Europe and the US, as well as students from across the African continent.

And so many of them are really interested in imagining what the world looks like.

And thinking about, it isn't what the world would look like without US leadership.

I think US must and should lead, or at least must and should be one of a group of leaders around the world.

But I do think that an increasingly large group of MBA students and other graduate business school students, including American students, are thinking about how to redraw some of the balances in the world in ways that are more likely to yield the kinds of outcomes that they're looking for and so that's really what we're seeing in our

class that's interesting both of you are describing something similar right a situation you didn't expect relationships that you had counted on but not realizing that there may be a silver lining and having to diversify sources of funding assuming some more perhaps initiative and autonomy when it comes to policy foreign policy right

And totally, to be honest, just sharpening what you do.

I mean, when you've had it good for many years and things have come easy, you don't have to innovate as much, perhaps, or you don't have to think, well, what do we need here? What do we not need here? And so this is that kind of opportunity where you can sharpen operations.

I think the example in health is very poignant, but I think it applies as well to business schools.

you know, a little bit of push sometimes

can be helpful.