Lee Chambers

yeah really powerful Lee I know I've heard you sort of share your story a few times in different different forums and yeah it always it always strikes me how you know resilient you've had to be but also how uh you know once you've got that understanding of actually something that needs to change that you've really been able to sort of take that and build something really impactful probably in amongst that I imagine you've been asked questions around like well what does male allyship look like and is it just about being like men being supportive of women and you know I always have that vision of you know the suffragettes when they went out with like their banners on and like their marches what were their husbands doing when they're at home making the tea, like being supportive.

You know, there's that perception sometimes that allyship is just, oh, well, you go out and do that thing, love, and I'll look after the kids for an hour.

You know, but it's not just support, is it? It's different.

So, yeah, I'm just keen to understand, like, How do you describe that to people when they say, well, what is male allyship? How does it look different to just sort of being supportive of women and what they're doing?

Yeah, so I think allyship in many ways has a little bit of a image issue.

There's lots of misconceptions.

So what we see allyship is fundamentally is not an ideology.

So it's not you believe something or you don't.

And it's not an identity.

You are an ally or you're not.

Allyship is a fundamental set of skills that help you and support you to work across difference.

And that can look different in how you apply those skills.

So sometimes it will be stepping forward and intervening when behavior is inappropriate and having some of those challenging conversations with people that need to be had.

But sometimes they'll be stepping to the side, garnering feedback from perspectives that are different than yours.

Sometimes it will be mentoring or sponsoring.

And it's that partnership aspect that, again, is part of that skill set, but is less on the front foot and more in collaboration.

Sometimes our ship is actually stepping back, yielding the space to voices that aren't always heard.

providing resources to things that you're not at the front and spearhead of, but are driving change.

Sometimes it's actively about removing yourself from a situation and letting someone else be seen, heard and valued.

And what's really important is that allyship, that positioning can be different in different circumstances.

but the skills of understanding how to position yourself the skills of being able to understand when to call out or call in or call forward behaviors the ability to think and take a moment to consider who's not had a voice in this room who's not in the spaces where decisions are made who is doing that glue work but the things that don't get you promoted but keep the whole operation going who's not getting credited on the projects they've clearly been a part of and who's having their ideas stolen and credit being taken by someone else who's constantly being interrupted because the voice isn't being heard and they're not being listened to how can we bring them back in so allyship is in many ways a set of skills and the application of those skills to make further more inclusive and fundamentally safer workplaces where everyone can perform everyone can bring their best self and everyone can reach their potential and obviously allyship sometimes is things we do for ourselves where we take a step outside of our own algorithm and our own network to actually reflect on what other people's lived experiences are like.

Sometimes it's how we interact with others, the team around us, clients, stakeholders, people who reside, our service users, and understanding how our interactions with them can actually make their lives fundamentally better, make them feel included and heard, but also inclusive.

how they can be potentially feel excluded and understanding how our interactions impact our everyday.

And finally around the systems, because we all live in systems and have access to some level of ability to change systems.

So whether that is who gets access to certain people or certain levers of change, whether it's how meetings are run, how networking is allocated, how projects are decided, how promotion processes are run, how recruitment is structured, All those different levers, if you reduce resistance and friction in those systems, that allows people to be able to get to where they get to and allows the opportunity for those systems to become fairer so everyone can come together and work together more effectively.

yeah really powerful Lee I know I've heard you sort of share your story a few times in different different forums and yeah it always it always strikes me how you know resilient you've had to be but also how uh you know once you've got that understanding of actually something that needs to change that you've really been able to sort of take that and build something really impactful probably in amongst that I imagine you've been asked questions around like well what does male allyship look like and is it just about being like men being supportive of women and you know I always have that vision of you know the suffragettes when they went out with like their banners on and like their marches what were their husbands doing when they're at home making the tea, like being supportive.

You know, there's that perception sometimes that allyship is just, oh, well, you go out and do that thing, love, and I'll look after the kids for an hour.

You know, but it's not just support, is it? It's different.

So, yeah, I'm just keen to understand, like, How do you describe that to people when they say, well, what is male allyship? How does it look different to just sort of being supportive of women and what they're doing?

Yeah, so I think allyship in many ways has a little bit of a image issue.

There's lots of misconceptions.

So what we see allyship is fundamentally is not an ideology.

So it's not you believe something or you don't.

And it's not an identity.

You are an ally or you're not.

Allyship is a fundamental set of skills that help you and support you to work across difference.

And that can look different in how you apply those skills.

So sometimes it will be stepping forward and intervening when behavior is inappropriate and having some of those challenging conversations with people that need to be had.

But sometimes they'll be stepping to the side, garnering feedback from perspectives that are different than yours.

Sometimes it will be mentoring or sponsoring.

And it's that partnership aspect that, again, is part of that skill set, but is less on the front foot and more in collaboration.

Sometimes our ship is actually stepping back, yielding the space to voices that aren't always heard.

providing resources to things that you're not at the front and spearhead of, but are driving change.

Sometimes it's actively about removing yourself from a situation and letting someone else be seen, heard and valued.

And what's really important is that allyship, that positioning can be different in different circumstances.

but the skills of understanding how to position yourself the skills of being able to understand when to call out or call in or call forward behaviors the ability to think and take a moment to consider who's not had a voice in this room who's not in the spaces where decisions are made who is doing that glue work but the things that don't get you promoted but keep the whole operation going who's not getting credited on the projects they've clearly been a part of and who's having their ideas stolen and credit being taken by someone else who's constantly being interrupted because the voice isn't being heard and they're not being listened to how can we bring them back in so allyship is in many ways a set of skills and the application of those skills to make further more inclusive and fundamentally safer workplaces where everyone can perform everyone can bring their best self and everyone can reach their potential and obviously allyship sometimes is things we do for ourselves where we take a step outside of our own algorithm and our own network to actually reflect on what other people's lived experiences are like.

Sometimes it's how we interact with others, the team around us, clients, stakeholders, people who reside, our service users, and understanding how our interactions with them can actually make their lives fundamentally better, make them feel included and heard, but also inclusive.

how they can be potentially feel excluded and understanding how our interactions impact our everyday.

And finally around the systems, because we all live in systems and have access to some level of ability to change systems.

So whether that is who gets access to certain people or certain levers of change, whether it's how meetings are run, how networking is allocated, how projects are decided, how promotion processes are run, how recruitment is structured, All those different levers, if you reduce resistance and friction in those systems, that allows people to be able to get to where they get to and allows the opportunity for those systems to become fairer so everyone can come together and work together more effectively.