Nov 2, 2026 · 2 hr 37 min · 22 segments
Why does the advertising industry make so much work that people actually pay money to avoid? And what does it take to create something that genuinely matters? Dan Pope sits down with Nils Leonard…
Nils LeonardGuest
Dan PopeHost
I was just going to say, and I mean this sincerely, in my previous life, I was running stuff, trying to do as much as I could.

And I literally had the conversation you just had, which is these keep the lights on and these are good.

experiment when I started this was what if everything was good and kept the lights on? And what if it wasn't? Because I think you're naturally drawn into a conversation, which is this will pay, but this is what I want to do.

And what if the exercise or the experiment was trying to literally make the things that you want to do pay you and then you refused to do the other things long enough to let those things come?

And actually, they are really good to work with because they'll introduce me to some amazing restaurants and chefs, interesting people.

And yeah, I mean, one of the things we're thinking of doing is trying to monetize the audience direct through, you know, like the rest is history.

and part of that membership would be doing in-person events, because I think people are really pining for that now.

They were a news brand started by James Harding, who was the editor of the Sunday Times, etc.

He did these things called think-ins, which were basically how a newsroom used to work, because if you and I were running a newspaper, we'd do a story, we'd lock ourselves in a room, we'd get journos, experts, whatever, we'd build the whole story, and then we'd come out and publish it.

I was just going to say, and I mean this sincerely, in my previous life, I was running stuff, trying to do as much as I could.

And I literally had the conversation you just had, which is these keep the lights on and these are good.

experiment when I started this was what if everything was good and kept the lights on? And what if it wasn't? Because I think you're naturally drawn into a conversation, which is this will pay, but this is what I want to do.

And what if the exercise or the experiment was trying to literally make the things that you want to do pay you and then you refused to do the other things long enough to let those things come?

And actually, they are really good to work with because they'll introduce me to some amazing restaurants and chefs, interesting people.

And yeah, I mean, one of the things we're thinking of doing is trying to monetize the audience direct through, you know, like the rest is history.

and part of that membership would be doing in-person events, because I think people are really pining for that now.

They were a news brand started by James Harding, who was the editor of the Sunday Times, etc.

He did these things called think-ins, which were basically how a newsroom used to work, because if you and I were running a newspaper, we'd do a story, we'd lock ourselves in a room, we'd get journos, experts, whatever, we'd build the whole story, and then we'd come out and publish it.
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