5.5 Why wellbeing needs a reframe, with Oliver Henry

[gentle music] For the last time this season, welcome to the podcast, Hannah.

It's good to be here again, Karissa.

The subject of today's main interview is wellbeing.

So what does wellbeing mean to you when you think about wellbeing at work?

For me, I think wellbeing is just all about how work is making you feel in terms of stress levels, workload, burnout, but also just how happy you feel while you're in work and after it.

But in workplaces, I think it's thought of about perks and, and, and policies and what employers provide, like free snacks and smoothies in the office and team-building initiatives like sports days.

And I think those are also very good to haves, but maybe there's a contrast there between what employees think are wellbeing and what employers are seeing as wellbeing.

Yeah.

I think that mismatch is definitely something that we talk about in the, in the main interview with Oliver, because he argues that people see and define wellbeing in different ways.

And y- you're right, you're absolutely right, there's different employer perspectives compared to employee perspectives.

I think at the core of it, it's just how the conditions of your work are affecting your mental and your physical health.

I'm not saying that policies and, and flexible policies, flexible working policies and different things that relate to wellbeing aren't important.

I think it's just how they are actually given in the workplace and how managers approach these conversations in the workplace that actually affect employees' wellbeing more.

So what about psychological safety then? What does that mean and how is that different from wellbeing?

The way I see it is that psychological safety is almost the foundation that a positive wellbeing culture is built on.

So it's hard to have one without the other because they, they go hand in hand.

But to define psychological safety, I'd say it's this idea that people should feel safe to bring up mistakes in their work, to be able to have disagreements and bring up concerns without feeling like they're going to be judged or ridiculed or even lose their job over that.

I totally get that, and I love the idea of how you've put it, you know, the bedrock on which positive wellbeing is, is founded is, is psychological safety.

Is that what you're hearing from HR commentators as well?

Yeah.

I mean, HR commentators always bring up this idea that, you know, you can have policies, uh, around wellbeing, but they're not going to be received by your employees unless managers are able to produce that psychological safety alongside with it.

So you may have an, a policy on flexible working and, and, and parental leave, but employee may come to a manager with that and ask for some flexible leave, and if it's not received, you know, with empathy by a manager, then it doesn't matter what policy you have, that, that employee isn't gonna feel safe in their, to bring that subject up again or to take that leave even.

Yeah, I hear that.

Some people don't have that natural ability to empathize, right? And in the main interview, Oliver talks about vulnerability as well, and honesty, and maybe that being a driver of positive wellbeing as well.

This res- big responsibility to be empathetic to all people at all times, that I imagine can be quite a burden for some people, right?