Sep 21, 2026 · 46 min · 17 segments
In the modern workplace, hierarchy and power differences are often viewed as problems to solve. But Deborah Gruenfeld has a different perspective: hierarchy is not only essential to organizations, but…
Deborah GruenfeldGuest
Anne MorrissHost
Frances FreiHost
The subtitle of your terrific book, Acting with Power, is why we are more powerful than we believe.
We need to figure out who's And I think that feeling for most of us never really goes away.
And what we know from research on power and perception in social context is that attention follows power.
So we're all looking for the person in the room who has control of the rest of our fates.
And we tend to associate power, I think, for those reasons with other people.
And it's very hard, I think, for those of us in positions of power, especially to be able to see ourselves through others' eyes, because we don't have feelings about our own power.
We only have, I think, the feelings about our own insecurities and our own needs tend to be stronger.
So I've heard you tell a story about working for a PR executive who was representing Jan Weiner, the famous Rolling Stone editor.
I worked for a brief period as a writer and journalist and a public relations consultant.
And Jan Wenner was one of the clients of the woman that I went to work for.
The subtitle of your terrific book, Acting with Power, is why we are more powerful than we believe.
We need to figure out who's And I think that feeling for most of us never really goes away.
And what we know from research on power and perception in social context is that attention follows power.
So we're all looking for the person in the room who has control of the rest of our fates.
And we tend to associate power, I think, for those reasons with other people.
And it's very hard, I think, for those of us in positions of power, especially to be able to see ourselves through others' eyes, because we don't have feelings about our own power.
We only have, I think, the feelings about our own insecurities and our own needs tend to be stronger.
So I've heard you tell a story about working for a PR executive who was representing Jan Weiner, the famous Rolling Stone editor.
I worked for a brief period as a writer and journalist and a public relations consultant.
And Jan Wenner was one of the clients of the woman that I went to work for.
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