Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny
Aug 18, 2026 · 58 min · 19 segments
Twenty-five years ago, *Insiders* went to air for the first time – the morning after the Aston by-election, before smartphones, before social media, and long before anyone had to explain what a fax…
Mark KennyHostMaria TaflagaHost
Anna ClarkGuest
Now, Maria, as you may have noticed, uh, Insiders, uh, probably the pre-eminent, uh, political discussion program in this country, uh, turned 25, uh, a week or so back.
Um, and it kinda got me thinking, um, about, uh, not just that program, but the, the, the, the sort of span of history that it has covered because it's been quite a, a, sort of a pivotal one.
Uh, certainly for governing and for politics, of course there have been some very big things that have happened in that 25 years, not least being the, you know, September 11 and the changes that came from that and we've had a GFC and we've had a pandemic and, you know, all kinds of other problems and the problems that are going on now.
But we've also had major sort of technical, technological transformations and, and quite radical sort of or dramatic changes in the way politics itself is done and indeed the way media operate and, uh, it's, it's interesting to reflect, for example, that even the term insiders, uh, um, is probably used more often nowadays in a kind of pejorative sense, uh, given that we're in the era of kind of virtuous outsiderism, um, you know, the, the sort of, um, uh, idea that people inside the machine are part of the problem very much, uh, you know, kind of drain the swamp type thinking from the US and, and, uh, Scott Morrison's Canberra bubble, uh, you know, this kind of thing.
But, uh, certainly it's been, uh, an interesting opening to the 21st century i- in, in those ways and so I thought it would be good to kinda think about all of these things having a, a longer term historical sweep to it.
Uh, and so I'm very happy that we have with us Anna Clark, professor of public history at University of Technology Sydney and it's great to have you in the studio, Anna.
And indeed you're the author of, uh, the book Making Australian History, uh, which I think was 2022 that book and which was lauded very strongly on this program at the end of that year.
Yeah, I'm a l- l- long time listener lurker and, uh, first time here so thanks for having me.
[laughs] Well, um, a- a- as I say, it's great to have you here and, and to just to th- you know, have a kind of a general discussion about where we are because in that Insiders episode, um, Barry Cassidy and Paul Kelly, two originals, and indeed Karen Middleton, uh, all of whom were on the first show back in 2001 and have been, you know, absolute kind of, um, heavyweights in, in political coverage through that whole time and indeed before it.
Uh, they were sort of talking about a range of these forces that have been happening in, uh, in, in politics and media.
Uh, and I thought it'd be really good to sort of have a bit of a chat about that and just think about it sort of schematically.
With that in mind, what, what, what, what, what do you think, Maria, if I could start with you.
What, what, what, what would, what do you think is the sort of, um, difference, the key difference between the way politics is done now with the way it was at the turn of the century?
Yeah, so I think, um, when this show started or that sh- or, or yeah, it was just, um, just after the Aston by-election-
Now, Maria, as you may have noticed, uh, Insiders, uh, probably the pre-eminent, uh, political discussion program in this country, uh, turned 25, uh, a week or so back.
Um, and it kinda got me thinking, um, about, uh, not just that program, but the, the, the, the sort of span of history that it has covered because it's been quite a, a, sort of a pivotal one.
Uh, certainly for governing and for politics, of course there have been some very big things that have happened in that 25 years, not least being the, you know, September 11 and the changes that came from that and we've had a GFC and we've had a pandemic and, you know, all kinds of other problems and the problems that are going on now.
But we've also had major sort of technical, technological transformations and, and quite radical sort of or dramatic changes in the way politics itself is done and indeed the way media operate and, uh, it's, it's interesting to reflect, for example, that even the term insiders, uh, um, is probably used more often nowadays in a kind of pejorative sense, uh, given that we're in the era of kind of virtuous outsiderism, um, you know, the, the sort of, um, uh, idea that people inside the machine are part of the problem very much, uh, you know, kind of drain the swamp type thinking from the US and, and, uh, Scott Morrison's Canberra bubble, uh, you know, this kind of thing.
But, uh, certainly it's been, uh, an interesting opening to the 21st century i- in, in those ways and so I thought it would be good to kinda think about all of these things having a, a longer term historical sweep to it.
Uh, and so I'm very happy that we have with us Anna Clark, professor of public history at University of Technology Sydney and it's great to have you in the studio, Anna.
And indeed you're the author of, uh, the book Making Australian History, uh, which I think was 2022 that book and which was lauded very strongly on this program at the end of that year.
Yeah, I'm a l- l- long time listener lurker and, uh, first time here so thanks for having me.
[laughs] Well, um, a- a- as I say, it's great to have you here and, and to just to th- you know, have a kind of a general discussion about where we are because in that Insiders episode, um, Barry Cassidy and Paul Kelly, two originals, and indeed Karen Middleton, uh, all of whom were on the first show back in 2001 and have been, you know, absolute kind of, um, heavyweights in, in political coverage through that whole time and indeed before it.
Uh, they were sort of talking about a range of these forces that have been happening in, uh, in, in politics and media.
Uh, and I thought it'd be really good to sort of have a bit of a chat about that and just think about it sort of schematically.
With that in mind, what, what, what, what, what do you think, Maria, if I could start with you.
What, what, what, what would, what do you think is the sort of, um, difference, the key difference between the way politics is done now with the way it was at the turn of the century?
Yeah, so I think, um, when this show started or that sh- or, or yeah, it was just, um, just after the Aston by-election-
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