S1.E2: How Technology Is Shaping Every Global System Transition

*AI and clean tech are converging to influence the pace and nature of* *key systems transition.* AI is the great accelerator — but accelerating in the wrong direction is still the wrong direction. In this episode, Wayne and Sally explore the double-edged nature of technology: a powerful enabler of every other systems transition, and a sector with its own rapidly growing footprint. The question isn't whether AI is good or bad — it's what we point it at. **Guests** **Joel Makower** — Chair & Co-founder, Trellis Group (formerly GreenBiz); Strategy Director, Music Sustainability Alliance; lead author, *State of Green Business* **Anna Lerner Nesbitt** — CEO, Climate Collective; former senior leader at Meta, the World Bank Group, and the Global Environment Facility **What We Cover** - Why the five biggest tech companies now outspend the entire oil and gas industry on capital investment - How AI is enabling breakthroughs in energy grids, supply chain traceability, deforestation monitoring, and more — and where it's falling short - Why Big Tech's emissions are going *up*, despite their net zero commitments - The community backlash against data centres — and why it's crossing political lines - What "AI literacy" means and why it matters for governments, businesses, and individuals - Why applied AI in industrial systems — not chatbots — is where the real sustainability impact lies **Key Quotes** "We can now measure emissions and planetary impact far better than we can reduce them." — Joel Makower "AI will be good, AI could be really positive for whatever we point it towards." — Anna Lerner Nesbitt "Why can't I know where my AI was processed? Technically, it's totally possible." — Anna Lerner Nesbitt **References** - Trellis Group (formerly GreenBiz): trellis.net - Climate Collective: climatecollective.org - Kenneth Boulding — the "cowboy economy" vs. the "spaceship economy" - Donella Meadows — *Thinking in Systems* **This Episode's Dance** **The Paso Doble** — a dance of raw power, with the bull and the matador both charging. Who wins? That's the question playing out right now between the hyperscalers, communities, and policymakers. *Next episode: The Food System Transition*