Communication Untangled

Communication Untangled

Untangling Leadership

Sep 20, 2026 · 24 min · 8 segments

**Get a lesson in leadership communication from orchestra conductor Robert Ziegler and business identity expert Majid Islam, with communications specialist and host Sue Keogh.** When you’re leading…

**Get a lesson in leadership communication from orchestra conductor Robert Ziegler and business identity expert Majid Islam, with communications specialist and host Sue Keogh.** When you’re leading an orchestra, how do you communicate with 80 incredibly talented musicians, all at once – when you’re the one person in the room who can’t make a noise? Conductor Robert Ziegler shares lessons in leadership communication from his incredible career leading orchestras around the world. Not just performing classics from Beethoven, Chopin and Holst, recording the soundtrack to computer game Genshin Impact, the live tour of David Attenborough’s Ocean, and the film score to Lord of the Rings. He’ll talk about the importance of eye contact, how to read the room when you have your back to the audience, and why the best conductors are like the CEO, presenting a compelling vision everyone can get behind. We’ll also hear from Majid Islam, from Alignment Cubed, who explains how you need to adapt your communication style according to the type of organisation you’re leading – is it a Giant Monster, Elite Team, Visionary Ecosystem, or Efficient Machine? **Communication Untangled is a podcast from Cambridge communications consultancy Sookio.** **Got a knotty communication challenge you need untangling? Talk to us** https://www.sookio.com/podcast http://sookio.com/contact Robert Ziegler’s website: https://www.robertziegler.co.uk/ Alignment Cubed: http://www.alignmentcubed.com/ Communication Untangled is a podcast from Cambridge communications consultancy Sookio. Got a knotty communication challenge that needs untangling? We can help, through communications strategy, marketing consultancy and brand storytelling. Start here: sookio.com/podcast * * * Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

**Get a lesson in leadership communication from orchestra conductor Robert Ziegler and business identity expert Majid Islam, with communications specialist and host Sue Keogh.** When you’re leading…

Show signals: Audience≈255k followers

Eye Contact and Reading the Room5:04 – 8:49

5:04

Can you just break down your, I suppose, your toolkit for me? So you've got your hand gestures.

5:08

You've got the baton.

5:09

I'm waving a pencil to demonstrate that.

5:12

You've got facial expressions.

5:13

You might have other body language.

5:15

How are you bringing all of this together to form that connection and get the best out of people?

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:21

Everyone has different gestures and you don't even know why some gestures work better than others.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:28

And each conductor will develop their own way of conducting.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:32

I think your eyes are hugely important.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:38

Because if you can actually look, rather than keeping your head down and looking at the score and doing like this, naturally musicians will sort of disconnect from that.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:48

Whereas if you can look at someone and cue them, and you look over at the basses, which is to my right and the orchestra's left, and they know you're there, people feel more connected.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:59

I mean, a viola player in one of the orchestras once said to me, it's good that you do that because most conductors just conduct the principal stand of string players.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:10

They just conduct the front stands, you know, and they never, you know, they're just here and just here, occasionally to the winds, but never to the back of the section.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:18

And I find that if you stand up and you do that, I find actually a tangible difference.

6:25

So the eyes, the eye contact.

6:26

I think eye contact is

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:27

hugely important.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:28

And I remember, you know, the old saying is that you should have the score in your head rather than your head in the score.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:37

And that's really true because not that you necessarily have to memorize, although it is good if you have the time to do that.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:48

your connection to the orchestra is increased a lot if you can sort of get away from that score.

6:55

When we're talking about a live performance, there's this whole other section of people that you need to be thinking about, but then you might have your back to them as well.

7:03

Always.

7:04

So that's a tricky one.

7:06

So how are you reading the room? How are you getting a sense of how the whole performance is being received?

Robert ZieglerGuest

7:13

Well, that's a very good question because quite often you don't know.

Eye Contact and Reading the Room5:04 – 8:49

5:04

Can you just break down your, I suppose, your toolkit for me? So you've got your hand gestures.

5:08

You've got the baton.

5:09

I'm waving a pencil to demonstrate that.

5:12

You've got facial expressions.

5:13

You might have other body language.

5:15

How are you bringing all of this together to form that connection and get the best out of people?

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:21

Everyone has different gestures and you don't even know why some gestures work better than others.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:28

And each conductor will develop their own way of conducting.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:32

I think your eyes are hugely important.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:38

Because if you can actually look, rather than keeping your head down and looking at the score and doing like this, naturally musicians will sort of disconnect from that.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:48

Whereas if you can look at someone and cue them, and you look over at the basses, which is to my right and the orchestra's left, and they know you're there, people feel more connected.

Robert ZieglerGuest

5:59

I mean, a viola player in one of the orchestras once said to me, it's good that you do that because most conductors just conduct the principal stand of string players.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:10

They just conduct the front stands, you know, and they never, you know, they're just here and just here, occasionally to the winds, but never to the back of the section.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:18

And I find that if you stand up and you do that, I find actually a tangible difference.

6:25

So the eyes, the eye contact.

6:26

I think eye contact is

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:27

hugely important.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:28

And I remember, you know, the old saying is that you should have the score in your head rather than your head in the score.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:37

And that's really true because not that you necessarily have to memorize, although it is good if you have the time to do that.

Robert ZieglerGuest

6:48

your connection to the orchestra is increased a lot if you can sort of get away from that score.

6:55

When we're talking about a live performance, there's this whole other section of people that you need to be thinking about, but then you might have your back to them as well.

7:03

Always.

7:04

So that's a tricky one.

7:06

So how are you reading the room? How are you getting a sense of how the whole performance is being received?

Robert ZieglerGuest

7:13

Well, that's a very good question because quite often you don't know.