Be Well with Dr. Michelle Greenwell
Sep 23, 2026 · 59 min · 13 segments
**Who holds the authority for healing?** Is it the therapist, the method, the diagnosis, the research—or the person actually living the experience? In this thought-provoking episode of *Be Well with…
Mark A. MichaelsGuest
Michelle GreenwellHostOkay, so if we move from there, I'm curious about, we look at the psychedelic therapy, right? and bringing that in as a central context, what happens with authority within that framework? Can you talk a little bit about it compared to a psychotherapy approach, as an example?

I'm... very ambivalent about a lot of what goes on in the psychedelic world.

And I'm not very trusting of a lot of the kind of leading figures in the movement, et cetera.

Some of that's based on experience and some of it's just based on hard-won skepticism.

I'm still very committed to psychedelics as a tool, but I'm not thrilled with a lot of how they're being used.

But one of the leading lights in the psychedelic movement used the term nonspecific amplifiers to describe what psychedelics do.

And I think that has real use because they can amplify what's going well and they can amplify what's going badly.

and they create a state in the person who's consumed them of much greater openness and vulnerability.

And so the potential for exploitation in that context is magnified, as is the potential for benefit and healing.

And so it's very important that the environment be a safe one, and safety is not gonna be the same for everybody.

My experience with psychedelic groups has been working with people who are trained in a shamanic tradition who really are rooted in that tradition has been the safest in that context.


So there's a little bit less potential for that kind of exploitive dynamic to enter into it or for other people's ideologies to get implanted um or the power power dynamics to be pulled you know in an even more kind of dominant the provider of the medicine becomes this authority figure who also holds the the the key to your healing and you know you've got to keep on their good side to keep getting that medicine that you're finding so valuable
If you think it's working, but you don't have access the way that you would like to have access,
have the opportunities in the frequency or in the way in which you want to, to work.
Okay, so if we move from there, I'm curious about, we look at the psychedelic therapy, right? and bringing that in as a central context, what happens with authority within that framework? Can you talk a little bit about it compared to a psychotherapy approach, as an example?

I'm... very ambivalent about a lot of what goes on in the psychedelic world.

And I'm not very trusting of a lot of the kind of leading figures in the movement, et cetera.

Some of that's based on experience and some of it's just based on hard-won skepticism.

I'm still very committed to psychedelics as a tool, but I'm not thrilled with a lot of how they're being used.

But one of the leading lights in the psychedelic movement used the term nonspecific amplifiers to describe what psychedelics do.

And I think that has real use because they can amplify what's going well and they can amplify what's going badly.

and they create a state in the person who's consumed them of much greater openness and vulnerability.

And so the potential for exploitation in that context is magnified, as is the potential for benefit and healing.

And so it's very important that the environment be a safe one, and safety is not gonna be the same for everybody.

My experience with psychedelic groups has been working with people who are trained in a shamanic tradition who really are rooted in that tradition has been the safest in that context.


So there's a little bit less potential for that kind of exploitive dynamic to enter into it or for other people's ideologies to get implanted um or the power power dynamics to be pulled you know in an even more kind of dominant the provider of the medicine becomes this authority figure who also holds the the the key to your healing and you know you've got to keep on their good side to keep getting that medicine that you're finding so valuable
If you think it's working, but you don't have access the way that you would like to have access,
have the opportunities in the frequency or in the way in which you want to, to work.
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