How important was their role in what happened? And are there any parallels that you see with today?

Well, I'm a historian, so I only do Weimar.

But what I will say, when everyone looks at this comparison between Trump and Hitler, Hitler, Trump, to what degree, I think one of the more interesting pieces that I came across in looking at this was actually the Democrats following Kamala Harris's loss in the presidential election in November of 2024. when you look at the Social Democrats, the analysis of what happened after their elections when Hitler was in his sentencing, when the Nazis were basically storming the polls.

And there was a man named Emil Gumbel, who was a statistician, a friend of Albert Einstein's, one of the leading commentators on these issues of the day.

And he did this analysis.

And he said, you know, the problem was we, this is the Social Democrats, we were warning about the threat of Hitler to civil liberties, to rule of law, the Nazis as a threat to democracy.

Does that sound familiar? However, what we missed was the fact that the Nazis were talking about to people about the alltagsorgen, the everyday worries, inflation, housing, unemployment, public security.

If that is the case, how could Hitler have been stopped between November 1932 and the beginning of 1934?

Talk about that a little bit, and what do you think the answer is?

I'll talk about it a bit.

I'm not sure I can give an answer.

Two of the great mysteries, one is the Reichstag fire, what actually happened, but the other is what really motivated Hindenburg.

as we discussed, he absolutely despised this Bohemian corporal.

He even said when he appointed him, he said, I don't expect this guy to last six weeks.

He's going to burn himself out.

And there's a fire at the Reichstag.

And you end your book with a quote saying from the introduction to Goebbels collected writings The big joke on democracy is that it provides its mortal enemies the means to its own destruction isn't this how Hitler performed in gaining absolute power by basically playing the weaknesses within democracy against democracy.

Yes, Sidney, but I think one could maybe subtitle the book.

It's really about how Hitler almost didn't dismantle democracy or how he failed to.

And I think that what I did try to do in the book is to not only show what the man did, but the obstacles he faced because, you know, and I think of this book, you know, there have been 120,000 books written on Hitler and there's brilliant books, but most of them show sort of present this inexorable rise or is just unstoppable.

And I think what I've introduced into 53 Days is looking, or they introduced themselves, I would say, through the research, but really the obstacles that he faced going in.

And just one point, you mentioned this ad that just ran on Facebook.

by the current president of the United States using public money.

I wonder if you could discuss with us how the corporate sector and the bankers collaborated to fund Hitler.

And this is in the first, first year of Hitler's chancellorship, is that right?

This is in the, this is in the first months of Hitler's chancellorship.

Hitler is appointed chancellor on January 30th, 1933.

Um, the first deaths in-- What happened was-- Yeah, I mean, this, you know, comes to the rule of law.

What happens is, um, the Hitler starts rounding up political opponents.

They start packing them into jails.

The jails become overfull.

W-who, who stood out for you in that story in partic- in, in those stories in particular?

So can you just say a little bit for those who are unlettered in the Weimar Republic, what is this soup in which Hitler and the Nazis are stewing?

Excellent.

Yes, it was.

We know that the famous German Kaiser, Germany had been ruled as a monarchy until November 1918, when the monarch was toppled and a German republic was a federated constitutional republic.

And that existed, committed to democratic values, borrowed a lot from the US Constitution, borrowed from the Swiss federated system, the British parliamentary system.

It was considered one of the most modern constitutions of its day.

And you mentioned what was important.

So Tim, just how canny was Adolf Hitler politically and how much of a success was rooted in powerful people failing to see that?

But what was the infamous Enabling Act and how was Hitler able to pass a piece of legislation that in effect was the death knell of the Weimar Republic? Because despite of the Reichstag fire, Germany wasn't in the middle of a terrible war or a natural disaster or fighting for its survival in some other way.

On top of that, the country was actually recovering.

You keep in mind, we're talking about the aftershocks of the huge crash of 1929, and the whole world melts down.

But by early 1932, the German economy is recovering.

As I say, unemployment levels have settled.

GDP is starting to tick upward.

So all the signs are moving that direction.

Which makes me wonder, was there any mass civil unrest accompanying the passing of the Enabling Act? Please tell me, at least my beloved Berlin showed up in this regard.

well,

I think everyone knows this famous story about Hitler being rejected by art school and how different history would have been had he become a landscape painter instead of a politician.

No, Hitler understood sort of the importance of culture as a foundation for the identity of the people.

And the most concrete example would be, which I should say the most glass and steel example I can give, is this thing called the Bauhaus.

I don't know how many of you have heard of it, but we're both sitting on Bauhaus chairs here.

Every glass and steel building you look at goes back to Bauhaus.

The famous glass teapot is Bauhaus.

But what do you think are the key, what do you think are the analogies that worry you? And what do you think are the differences that may save us?

It means, literally?

It literally mean...

Nacht und Nebel means night and fog, and it relates to what was called the Nacht und Nebel Erlass, which was a decree issued by Hitler himself, and it was instituted specifically to avoid the judicial systems that were in place.

The, the countries around Germany were occupied by the Wehrmacht, by the German military.

The German military had its own court system, so that if there were resistance fighters, y- they would...

And they were caught, they would be placed before a, a, a German military court.

But Hitler wanted to forgo that system and instituted th- his own process, this Nacht und Nebel Erlass, this, um, night and fog decree, as it were, which simply had people disappear.

Trust would be a gauzy tissue in this kind of society.

What is Hugenberg thinking that morning? Can he keep this from happening? Does he want more for joining the coalition? What are his thoughts?

Well, Hugenberg has what he did his entire career to be part of government.

He sees himself as the potential being minister of economics.

He's a businessman.

It's a tremendous opportunity.

He also knows that he is he has he's the one man with the power to make or break Adolf Hitler at that moment.

Why? He in the November 6 election, he ended up with a million votes that Hitler had lost, which means Hugenberg had 40 seats in the Reichstag.

What happens to Schleicher the next year?

What does Schleicher want at this point? What does he tell Hindenburg his options are?

What Schleicher had manipulated the situation first brought Poppin into power as his puppet.

Then when he saw the, this was in the spring of 32, when he saw the opportunity to remove Poppin and replace Poppin with himself, he did this in December of 3032 so suddenly Schleicher finds himself both as Minister of Defense and as Chancellor so head of the military and head of the government you know simply after the president the most powerful man in the country with all the key levers of power.

But what Hindenburg still wants is a functioning Reichstag.

He wants a, this is a constitutional democracy, constitutional republic.

He simply wants the country to follow the rules.

And so he needs to get a Reichstag put together.

Did they know that in the 30s? They...

What is their hope, Tim? Why do they throw their resources into Lippy? What's happened?

Well, okay.

Their high watermark was 37% in the July elections.

They take a hit of 2 million votes in the November elections.

John, you mentioned the Thuringia vote where they lose 25% again.

So they are... not only are they losing votes, there's a break with Strasse where they're hemorrhaging membership of the party, and most consequentially, they are millions and millions of Reichsmarks in debt.

I mean, each, they have...

What does Strasser and Schleicher talk about? How are they representing their futures? Has Strasser decided to betray Hitler? What is his thinking at this moment, Tim, after the Lippid setback?

Why does Poppin call Hitler after the election?

Um.

I guess in German politics, maybe in all politics, everybody smells blood.

What happens is, as you mentioned, John, Hitler disparaged Poppen.

Poppen disparaged Hitler.

The two men despised each other, disdained each other.

But after the election, Poppen... calls Hitler because he knows the Nazis have lost two million votes and he thinks maybe Hitler has softened up poppin himself remains to this day the most unpopular Chancellor in German history poppin is head of government Hindenburg is president And Hindenburg is basically saying to Poppen, I want a coalition government.

Tim, take over the scene.

"In four weeks," he predicts, "on October 6th, we will be victorious." What is that airplane for? How does he campaign, Tim?

Um, Hitler was certainly the first German political figure to use an airplane, um, possibly the first figure in Europe.

Um, what happened was Hitler did not have access to radio the way other people could and reach...

He was basically banned from the airwaves.

Um, so he had to look for alternate ways of reaching the people.

I should also mention, he also, in the mainstream press, he was basically cut out, was not getting his message through.

So he did a couple of things.

How did that work?

What is the general opinion in Germany of how democracy is working after replacing the monarchy?

Well, actually, the, for all the flaws of the Weimar Constitution, um, the Reichstag basically functioned fairly well for the first 12 years.

I mean, they, they passed laws.

Um, there were...

It's clear.

There's, you know, the, the, the, the crazy inflation, you know, in, in 1924.

You have the market crash in 1929.

We don't know him as a hero.

Why not, and where is he now?

Well, uh, Gregor Strasser gives...

You mentioned the, the name of the party is the National Socialist Workers' Party, and there's... those two words are key.

One is nationalist and the other is socialist.

Um, Hitler and Strasser were basically kind of yin and yang.

Um, Hitler was the fanatic nationalist.

Strasser was the committed socialist.

What do we need to know about Schleicher and Papen?

Did Hindenburg know that when he made that construction, that this would lead to Hitler rejecting it, or did he think he was charming him in some fashion?

Um, I think...

You know, Hindenburg had met with Hitler on several previous occasions.

Um, the, the first time [chuckles] Hitler came in, um, they had a meeting, and Hitler lectured, as you said, this young, relatively young Austrian, this forty-something Austrian, lectured for forty-five minutes, this, um, iconic eighty, you know, eighty-something leader of, of Germany.

And, um, after the meeting, Hitler walked out, and Hindenburg said, "Who was that man?" And he said, "Never [chuckles] bring someone like that to me again." Um, they then did have several subsequent meetings, um, so the two men had known each other.

Um, there was a certain amount of sparring involved, but, um, Hindenburg did not like Hitler for many, many reasons.

Um, first of all, um, because of Hit-- most important, I think, because of Hitler's divisive politics.

What is it that holds Hindenburg back from offering him the chancellorship, the opportunity to form a coalition? Is it Hitler's insistence that I will have total control? Is that what-- why Hindenburg hesitates?

What is Hugenberg's thinking that morning? Can he keep this from happening? Does he want more for joining the coalition? What are his thoughts?

Well, Hugenberg has worked his entire career to be part of government.

Um, he sees himself as the potential being minister of economics.

He's a businessman.

Um, it's a tremendous opportunity.

He also knows that he is-- he has-- he's the one man with the power to make or break Adolf Hitler at that moment.

Why? He-- in the November sixth election, he ended up with a million votes that Hitler had lost, which means Hugenberg had forty seats in the Reichstag.

What happens to Schleicher the next year?

What does Schleicher want at this point? What does he tell Hindenburg his options are?

What Schleicher had manipulated the situation first brought Papen into power as his puppet.

Um, then when he saw the op...

This was in the spring of thirty-two.

When he saw the opportunity to remove Papen and replace Papen with himself, he did this in December of thirty, thirty-two.

So suddenly Schleicher finds himself both as Minister of Defense and as Chancellor, so head of the military and head of the government, you know, uh, simply af-after the president, the most powerful man in the country with all the key levers of power.

Um, but what Hindenburg still wants is a functioning Reichstag.

Did they know that in the '30s?

What is their hope, Tim? Why do they throw their resources into Lippe? What's happened?

Well, okay.

Um, their high-water mark was thirty-seven percent in the July elections.

They take a hit of two million votes in the November elections.

John, you mentioned the Thuringia vote, where they lose twenty-five percent again.

So they're-- they are...

Not only are they, um, losing votes, um, there's a break with Strasser where they're hemorrhaging membership of the party, and most consequentially, they are millions and millions of Reichsmarks in debt.

What does Strasser and Schleicher talk about? W-what-- How are they represented-- representing their futures? Has Strasser decided to betray Hitler? What is his thinking at this moment, Tim, after the Lippe setback?

Why does Papen call Hitler after the election?

Um, I guess in German politics, maybe in all politics, everybody smells blood.

Um, what happens is, as you mentioned, John, Hitler disparaged Papen.

Papen disparaged Hitler.

The two men despised each other, disdained each other.

But after the election, um, Papen calls Hitler because he knows the Nazis have lost two million votes, um, and he thinks maybe Hitler has softened up.

Papen himself remains to this day the most unpopular chancellor in German history.

Tim, take over the scene.

"In four weeks," he predicts on October sixth, "we will be victorious." What is that airplane for? How does he campaign, Tim?

Um, Hitler was certainly the first German political figure to use an airplane, um, possibly the first figure in Europe.

Um, what happened was Hitler did not have access to radio the way other people could and reach-- He was basically banned from the airwaves.

Um, so he had to look for alternate ways of reaching the people.

I should also mention, he also, in the mainstream press, he was basically cut out, was not getting his message through.

So he did a couple of things to use whatever technology he could.

They produced these little, um, vinyl records with Hitler giving speeches that were distributed by the tens of thousands, um, to, to get word out there.

How did that work?

What is the general opinion in Germany of how democracy is working after replacing the monarchy?

Well, actually, the, for all the flaws of the Weimar Constitution, um, the Reichstag basically functioned fairly well for the first twelve years.

I mean, they, they passed laws.

Um, there were...

It's clear.

There's, you know, the, the, the, the crazy inflation, you know, in, in nineteen twenty-four.

You have the market crash in nineteen twenty-nine.

We don't know him as a hero.

Why not? And where is he now?

Well, uh, Gregor Strasser, yes.

You mentioned the, the name of the party is the National Socialist Workers' Party, and there's those two words are key.

One is nationalist and the other is socialist.

Um, Hitler and Strasser were basically kind of yin and yang.

Um, Hitler was the fanatic nationalist.

Strasser was the committed socialist.

What do we need to know about Schleicher and Papen?

Did Hindenburg know that when he made that construction, that this would lead to Hitler rejecting it? Or did he think he was charming him in some fashion?

Um, I think, you know, Hindenburg had met with Hitler on several previous occasions.

Um, the, the first time [laughs] Hitler came in, um, they had a meeting, and Hitler lectured, as you said, this young, relatively young Austrian, this forty-something Austrian, lectured for forty-five minutes, this, um, iconic eighty, you know, eighty-something leader of, of Germany.

And, um, after the meeting, Hitler walked out, and Hindenburg said, "Who was that man?" And he said, "Never [laughs] bring someone like that to me again." Um, they then did have several subsequent meetings.

Um, so the two men had known each other.

Um, there was a certain amount of sparring involved.

But, um, Hindenburg did not like Hitler for many, many reasons.

What is it that holds Hindenburg back from offering him the chancellorship, the opportunity to form a coalition? Is it Hitler's insistence that I will have total control? Is that why, why Hindenburg hesitates?

What is Hugenberg thinking that morning? Can he keep this from happening? Does he want more for joining the coalition? What are his thoughts?

Well, Hugenberg has wished his entire career to be part of government.

Um, he sees himself as the potential being minister of economics.

He's a businessman.

Um, it's a tremendous opportunity.

He also knows that he is, he has, he's the one man with the power to make or break Adolf Hitler at that moment.

Why? He, in the November 6th election, he ended up with a million votes that Hitler had lost, which means Hugenberg had 40 seats in the Reichstag.

Right.