Sheena, anything that you would want to add?

Yeah, I agree with everything you said, Sue, and if you remember that day in our garden when we- Decided to edit the book Roar Behind the Silence, it was because of that.

Um, and it seems to have, like you say, escalated beyond, beyond all, all recognition really.

And I think from...

Just to add to that, what I've seen as well is that the fear has just gone.

It sort of, it, it's, it's deepened through the work of midwives too.

So, you know, we're thinking about myself as a midwife and, and liaising with midwives all the time, and student midwives.

Sheena, you might wanna say some more about that.