When you line those two companies up in a fight, in the long run, you know, you probably know who's gonna win.

Well, you know, one, one thing that the world has continuously taught me is it is very complicated when you get out in the field and start working with companies, and you give shorthand answers, but you recognize the reality is always multifaceted.

So I'll say two things.

One, certainly, I think there is some credence to the fat, dumb, happy argument.

One example of it that Jim Collins wrote about in Good to Great, one of the things Bethlehem Steel did when it rebuilt its corporate headquarters in the late 1960s is it des- it designed it like a cross.

So it was like a plus sign, because if you have a building that's built like a plus sign, even though it doesn't use geography efficiently, there are a lot of corners.

You know, a square building has eight corners.

Um, but give us some perspective on Apple.

Mm-hmm.

But there also can be some really deep things that come out when you ask people to draw things.

I, I have...

Back in my old consulting days, it used to be a diagnostic tool that we would use.

We would go and ask people on the frontline of big change efforts, either draw, or if you don't think you're a good artist, find a picture or tell a parable about what it's like.

And I can't forget one of them.

One of them said, "You know, the innovators in our organization, they're, they're all turkeys." We're like, "Tell us more." It's like, "Well, life is good for them.

Mm-hmm.

Terms and conditions apply.

Disruption.

It isn't a buzzword.

It is a powerful force that has transformed and will continue to transform the world.

I've studied disruption for twenty-five years.

The same five lessons keep cropping up.

Understand these lessons, you can make sense of the world.

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1453.

An army approaches Constantinople.

If you're inside the walls of Constantinople, you probably feel okay because after all, those walls had stood for more than a thousand years.

There's a literal moat that goes around the city.

Once you get past the moat, you get to two sets of walls, each 18 feet thick.

Those walls were impenetrable before.

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Disruption.

It isn't a buzzword.

It is a powerful force that has transformed and will continue to transform the world.

I've studied disruption for 25 years.

The same five lessons keep cropping up.

Understand these lessons, you can make sense of the world.

Who drove these disruptions? I was hoping you can share with us what are common characteristics that they share and what does it tell us about what drives transformation in general?

So let me zoom into a particular story so I don't talk abstractly, but make it real.

Let me talk about maybe my favorite story in the book, Julia Child.

And the reason why Julia Child is my favorite story, well, many reasons, but at least one is you just don't see it coming.

I didn't even see it coming in the writing of the book.

It kind of emerged somewhat organically.

So you love that.

What were these disruptions? And more importantly, how do they apply to the challenges we're facing with healthcare today?

Scott, who are you coming in from? What are we talking about today?

Coming in from Boston, Massachusetts and talking about Epic Disruptions,

And of course, what you wish for in 2026.

Okay, great.

Well, first, thanks very much for recognizing Epic Disruptions.

It is a real honor to be recognized by this group, Disrupt TV, Epic Disruptions, a match made in heaven.

I would say the key thing in the book, disruption changes the world for better and sometimes for worse.

The line goes, history may not repeat, but it certainly rhymes.

Yet, I think once you do, it's so apparent the chasm that can be crossed.

I think absolutely.

I think one of the cases that I researched for my book, Epic Disruptions, helped to make this really clear to me.

So I have a chapter about steel mini mills.

If you study disruptive change at all, Clay Christensen loved the steel mini mill story.

There were integrated mills that created big, expensive plants that created the best steel in the world.

And then there was a classic disruptive technology, steel mini mills that used electric arc furnace that did pretty good steel at really low prices.

What are some great historical examples that illustrate this paradox?

What would he have thought about the ChatGPT moment?

First, I'm smiling because it's just a personal reflection.

So I spent the first 20 years of my career, as you mentioned, as a strategy consultant.

And in 2022, I say, okay, this has been fun, but it's also been really tiring.

As a consultant, every day you're fighting, whether you're fighting the problem or you're fighting the client, or you're fighting the world, or you're fighting your team.

It's just day-to-day battles and firefighting and so on.

So I say, okay, I'm gonna relax.

When you think through that, how do you translate that and sometimes put a futurist landscape and say, maybe let's invent the future, right? And create that next disruption.

But, um, you know, looking at this through the lens of these 11 innovations that, uh, you talk about, um, like, how, how to pick those and, and what are some key stories that people can learn from, from your seat?

seat?Well, let me start with just a little bit of origin story.

So it, it was 2023.

I had started teaching and I was teaching this class called Leading Disruptive Change and having a lot of fun teaching it.

So I went to my publisher, Harvard Business Review Press, and my editor, Kevin Evers, and said, "I've got an idea for you.

I want to do this book based on what I teach in the class." Kevin said, "That sounds nice.

We published a couple books that feel kind of similar to that.

(laughs)

But can you tell, uh, uh, I think for the, for the listeners, can you describe and say what Clay's, uh, theory of disruptive innovation actually is, and how you may have modified it or how you're, how you're developing it and changing it?

it?Great.

So first let me define disruption, then let me tell you the theory of disruption, then let me tell a little bit about some of the areas that I, I try to push in the book and beyond.

So just what is a disruptive innovation? The way that I like to illustrate this is just trace my family history.

So my father was born in 1947.

In 1947, there was exactly one computer in the world.

The computer is big.

[laughs]

But I think for the listeners, can you describe and say what Clay's theory of disruptive innovation actually is and how you may have modified it or how you're developing it and changing it?

Great.

So first, let me define disruption.

Then let me tell you the theory of disruption.

Then let me tell a little bit about some of the areas that I try to push in the book and beyond.

So just what is a disruptive innovation? The way that I like to illustrate this is just trace my family history.

So my father was born in 1947.

Yeah.

And they

are, and all case studies tell lies.

I mean, that's true because the world is complicated.

As you say, I stay, again, show your bias.

I use case studies in my class, not exclusively.

I also have people go through simulations, activities, and so on.

But I do very much believe that a well-grounded case study that It allows a student to essentially put on a different face or hat or whatever and look at the world from a different perspective and recognize the richness and the complexity of it, I think is an invaluable learning tool.

So in a world where we see when this works and when it doesn't, why do you think we haven't, to use a bad term, mastered these other things, these nuanced things to make sure that these acquisitions fall into these identifications of categories as an example?

So just explain to us who Gutenberg was and why he was not credited until later and what implications that has for us in terms of us learning about from past innovations.

This was a really fun thing I was blissfully unaware of until I did my research.

So, you know, the reason why Gutenberg was unknown for a couple hundred years is, you know, he had this idea, this idea for the printing press.

It wasn't just him.

There's a team of people that are working on it.

They need money.

You always need money to do things.

And then my second question, is that the right helpful story or should there be a different storyline?

Who drove these disruptions? I was hoping you can share with us what are common characteristics that they share and what does it tell us about what drives transformation in general?

So let me zoom into a particular story.

So I don't talk abstractly, but make it real.

Let me talk about maybe my favorite story in the book, Julia Child.

And the reason why Julia Child is my favorite story, well, many reasons, but at least one is you just don't see it coming.

I didn't even see it coming in the writing of the book.

It kind of emerged somewhat organically.

What were these disruptions? And more importantly, how do they apply to the challenges we're facing with healthcare today?