and

placed in the foster system, there is an invisible clock that starts ticking that says if the parent does not do the things that the system is asking them to do within a 15-month timeline, then the state can and should move for termination of parental rights and shift the goal to adoption for that child, absent certain exceptions that are written into the law.

I don't think we can underestimate the impact that AASFA has had on the way child welfare is practiced and exists at this point, because it means that literally from the day of that family separation, that there are forces working against the parent to move towards them losing their child forever.

And so when a child has been in the system for 15 or 22 months, the agency will move to terminate the parental rights of that parent, which in the language of the law, frees the child for adoption.

I hate that terminology because I don't think there's anything free about rights being terminated.

But either way, rights are terminated as in the very general terms when the issues that the system has defined brought the case into the court system have not been resolved, right? But what it means in practice is that parents are simply running out of time and their rights are getting terminated because they didn't find housing within the 15 month time period because they didn't complete a substance use program within that time period.

And so the timeline, I mean, really what I would say, although we could have a much longer discussion about all of the different grounds in the statute for termination of parental rights, really it amounts to rights are getting terminated because time has passed.

Under this, what are the conditions for a parent seeking to have their rights reinstated? Yeah.

So let me welcome you to the program, Sarah, and introduce the two women you've brought with you.

Thank you so much, Arnie.

I'm so thrilled to be here.

So my name's Sarah Katz, as you, um, described in my bio.

I'm a longtime media worker.

Um, I'm in the-- a leadership position with the National Writers Union, which represents, um, many, many different creative workers.

We're, um, authors, journalists, um, digital media workers.

Mm