And just that little thing you shared with me, it was just like, wow, what will that do to us as a living system? And the ignorance of the modern, postmodern human And also, I'm also curious in what way culture dreaming, the history we're standing on, Sarah, and what's there for us to learn in this moment to be able to call in the future humans?

it is part of the reason why I think dreaming is so incredibly important because I think that culture and the soul, they are born in dreams and they then go on to influence humanity.

And, um, When you were talking, Simon, Pamela, I thought it was really interesting what you're saying about this grief and making stupid mistakes, which I certainly feel as well.

I kind of feel like, what a waste of my life.

But no one ever told me, and we often forget with kids, that they only learn what you tell them.

So they're basically all kids unless they go to a very brilliant school, like a Steiner school or something, where they do a lot of nature stuff, where they have a lot of... talks about the history of humanity and all this kind of stuff they they are just learning what you feed them so i think where you start is educating small children and um and getting small children to appreciate and wonder at nature and really love nature as well because i think that There's so much activism around fighting against things and actually activism needs to be in love with stuff because loving is a much more powerful and transformative quality than hating stuff.

So I think that we need to rethink that a little bit.

And, you know, in spirit of aspiration, I totally agree, you know.

And also like I'm also curious in what way culture dreaming, the history we're standing on, uh, uh, Sarah, and like what, what is it there, what's, what's there for us to learn in this moment to be able to call in the future humans?

It is part of the reason why I think dreaming is so incredibly important, because I think that culture and the soul, they are born in dreams, and they then go on to influence humanity.

And, um-When you were talking, Simon, Pamela, I thought it was really interesting what you were saying about, you know, this grief and making stupid mistakes, which I certainly feel as well.

I kind of feel like, "What a waste of my life," like I didn't...

But no one ever told me, and we often forget with kids that they are only, they only learn what you tell them.

So they're basically all kids unless they go to a very brilliant school, like a Steiner school or something where they do a lot of nature stuff, where they have a lot of, um, uh, talks about the history of humanity and all this kind of stuff.

They, they are just learning what you feed them.

And, and it, you know, in spirit of aspiration, I totally agree, you know.

So if you don't mind, can you share an overview of your life, your education and key experiences that led to your passion for dreams and what they offer and anything else that you'd like to share?

I think really it just came from childhood.

I always had really amazing dreams when I was a kid, it was a massive part of my life.

Um, I've always been into any film, any TV show, any book that's about dreaming.

And I think that became a bit of a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

So, you know, my favourite story as a kid was Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.

I liked any weird films that had things to do with dreaming.

I just was curious if you'd seen any correlations like that.