And so I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about that of what your experience was like studying with Mark Ellis's and then maybe just your relationship kind of beyond that.

Sure, sure.

Well, Dr. Ellis, as most of us still refer to him, who studied with him, he and I first encountered each other in 2002.

I believe that's when that was, at a global mission event of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which is the church that I'm a part of.

He had been invited in to speak on a...

In a few different ways.

One of the speaking events that he was a part of included Bishop Menebunan from Jerusalem, the bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land, and Bishop Menebunan's spouse, Dr. Suad Yunan.

Just how Christians became inculcated into this dialogue and into this kind of ethos of thinking about Judaism as well.

Robert, can you describe for us some of the experiences that led you to pursue the topic of Christian Zionism as a field of study, and how your identity as a citizen of the Chickasaw Nation influences the approach you take in your research?

research?Sure.

Well, what a joy to be with y'all in conversation today, and to also have this important inflection of indigenous perspective, uh, into this conversation on Christian Zionism, but also on the Israeli-Palestinian topic, uh, as a whole.

This is a wonderful gathering, and I'm so happy to be part of it.

The Chickasaws were designated one of the so-called five civilized tribes in the southeast of the United States, and, uh, that word civilized just rubs us all the wrong way.

Uh [laughs] it, it, it is everything we don't want to be.

Because part of that designation of being civilized was the acceptance of Christianity and participation in the plantation economies of settler colonialism, including holding African descent people as slaves.

We have to also do what's just for Native peoples, and that's where things get very, very tricky and very, very complicated, and that's why I always try to take my dialogue down to the most foundational level that I can, so we can actually start at the base and begin to have a much more constructive dialogue.