Charles Spencer has a book out about the life and death of his sister, Princess Diana, which is being serialized in the Daily Mail newspaper, and the King's at the receiving end of some damning allegations, including that soon after Diana was killed, he told Earl Spencer, "Rest assured, we'll forget her soon enough." The Daily Mail's Robert Hardman is also royal book author, and I put it to him that the response to this from the palace so far had been uncharacteristically outspoken.

The palace yesterday, when a short version of this story came out, the palace immediately responded, uh, in about 90 minutes saying that, uh, they recognized that anger, fraternal grief can cloud, uh, memories of events.

So it was a response rather reminiscent of that of the late Queen when she said recollections may vary after some fairly incendiary, uh, allegations some years ago by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

So that, that was unexpected.

Um, but I, I think what it shows is that the King is absolutely adamant he's not going to let this version of events by his ex-brother-in-law, Charles Spencer, saying that he was somehow relieved, elated is the word that's been used, like a lottery winner is another phrase, um, by the death of Diana Princess of Wales.

He's absolutely, um, pushing back on that.

Um, so 29 years on, this, uh, very well-trodden, um, story, which was, um, in...

And there is presumably no way of knowing who's telling the truth.

Was there anything that you found or anything anyone told you that particularly surprised you or changed your opinion of her?

I think the more I studied, and this research had actually begun for a previous book, but I used a lot of it in this book as well, was being given access to her father's diaries, George VI's wartime diaries.

He didn't keep a diary all his life, but he did start a diary on the very first day of the Second World War.

And as I say in the book, to understand her, you've got to understand him.

because she adored him and she was absolutely determined to reign in his image.

And you look back through history and endless generation after generation where the heir and the monarch, they don't get on.

You look at the Georgians, they all hate each other.

I thought in the last few years it was... um she didn't do us any favors or herself personally

Next up, we'll hear from Robert Hardman on how King Harold's death could change the future of Norway and their royal family.

Crowning glory after Harold, what's the future for Norway's royal family? By Robert Hardman.

Affable, unflappable and imposing, he was a six foot two inch ex-Olympian, the late King Harold of Norway was also blessed with good luck for much of his life.

The first notable dose of good fortune occurred at the age of three, when his mother managed to spirit him and his sisters out of their home country hours before the Nazi invasion and away to safety in the US.

He returned to a nation so devoted to its monarchy that the children of post-war Norway pooled their pocket money to help buy his grandfather, King Harken, a royal yacht.

The Norg remains in service to this day, funded by an uncomplaining nation.

Compare that with Britain's royal family, who had to wave farewell to their yacht, Britannia, back in 1997 after a long and toxic political squabble.

So, I mean, I'm sure there is a threat to his life constantly by some of these nutbags.

Well, yeah, I mean, as a very prominent member of the royal family, there is going to be a security issue, no question.

And, you know, Ravik and the police handle these things.

They do so without giving us a running commentary.

They do so without giving Harry a running commentary.

I mean, as we've seen in the past, you know, people are quite wary of discussing things with Harry because these things often end up in the public domain.

Yes.

I mean, he's probably not going to hold back on the Windsors, is he, Spencer? So, I mean, this could be another Annas Horribilis for the royals.

Is, is, is Britain abuzz?

Uh, Br- Britain, uh, it's fair to say, is, is somewhat divided today.

Uh, trying to work out, you know, what, what does this mean? Are they coming back to life as members of the royal family? Answer: emphatically no.

Um, but they are, uh, uh, coming back to live in the UK, and I think it's been largely driven by the fact that, uh, uh, Archie, their eldest boy, he's seven, um, it's, it's a fork-in-the-road moment school-wise.

Is the big security question gonna get resolved, and if so, how so?

Well, the great, uh, the, the great, um, catchall position on security is we never discuss security.

Um, but given all the noise Harry has made about security in recent years, um, fought a very exhaustive court case all the way to the Court of Appeal, uh, to get his security arrangements covered by the state, we have to assume that some sort of arrangement has been made.

We don't know the details yet.

Is, is, is Britain abuzz?

Uh, Br- Britain, uh, it's fair to say, is, is somewhat divided today, uh, trying to work out, you know, what, what does this mean? Are they coming back to life as members of the royal family? Answer: emphatically no.

Um, but they are, uh, uh, coming back to live in the UK, and I think it's been largely driven by the fact that, uh, uh, Archie, their eldest boy, he's seven, um, it's, it's a fork-in-the-road moment school-wise.

Is the big security question gonna get resolved, and if so, how so?

Well, the great, uh, the, the great, um, catchall position on security is we never discuss security.

Um, but given all the noise Harry has made about security in recent years, um, fought a very exhaustive court case all the way to the court of appeal, uh, to get his security arrangements covered by the state, we have to assume that some sort of arrangement has been made.

We don't know the details yet.

I mean, there are a lot of details to come.

Um, is that one of the reasons it's, it's, it has such a strong, uh, sentiment, uh, it evokes such strong sentiment in this country? Because it's, it's maybe one of the very few things left now that really connects the people of this country to it.

Mm.

Well, uh, uh, the history kind of feeds into all that.

Uh, it's, it's soft power.

Uh, I, I've interviewed the, the, the, the man who codified, if you like, invented soft power, Professor Joe Nye of Harvard University, um, uh, who, uh, sort of defined the sort of concept of doing things through influence and charm and persuasion versus brute force and coercion.

He said, "Well, Britain, you've got two absolutely inalienable soft power assets.

One is, um, the English language, um, and, and all that goes with it, the literature, the culture, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Dickens, et cetera." But he said, "The other is the monarchy, the royal family.

[laughs]

Mm.

You're the family counselor, and you play this key constitutional role because you're there as part of what, what is often described as the golden triangle, which basically is what runs the country, which is the cabinet secretary, head of the civil service, the private secretary to the prime minister, and the private secretary to the sovereign.

And the three of them will sort of discuss if there's a tricky election issue coming up.

If there's something that's really, really crunchy and difficult, those three will get together mainly to ensure that the monarch isn't given bad advice or urged to do something really stupid.

Um, so the private secretary is, is really a brake on, on the monarchy either overreaching or being lured into difficult territory.

How big of a loss do you think this will be, Robert? I mean, it's hard to underestimate that role, isn't it?

I mean, Clive has been in that role, uh, as you say, I mean, for the best part of 20 years.

He originally came in from the Foreign Office on secondment as a deputy private secretary.

Would you describe your trip to the Oval Office as a funny story?

I think I probably would, Luke, yes.

I mean, it was an extraordinary week.

So many happy memories.

I mean, it started with a, A story I'd written for the Mail at the start of the week, actually showing how President Trump has related to the King, their 15th cousins, via a Scottish nobleman way back in time called the Earl of Lennox.

Anyway, I wrote this in the paper.

At the morning that the King arrived, suddenly the President reposted my story on his Truth Social, along with the words, wow, I've always wanted to live in a palace.

And

Ladies and gentlemen, Robert Hartman.

What a treat to be here.

Kind of why I've never been here before.

I can see why the king, who has been here, thinks so highly of it.

I get slightly Dumfries House vibes.

I don't know if any of you know Dumfries House, which is that wonderful house in Ayrshire which the king has rescued and given a new lease of life.

I do sense a similar sort of... new purpose uh going on here under under ian and harry and others so thank you for inviting me it was actually i i discovered it was uh had its first world visit in 1924 when then uh the duchess of york future george vi and queen elizabeth came here to stay for the weekend um not long after that just two years later along came the subject of my book Elizabeth II, as Harry said, I have written one or two books about it before.

Yeah?

Um, and, uh, yeah, el- elaborate.

I mean, courses were, as I said, there were sort of six, seven, eight courses.

One, that's one thing that, um, has been really coming down since, um, uh, since the late Queen's reign.

I mean, she, she managed to get state banquets, um, from, uh, they, they, they used to be, um, five-course affairs, and she'd, she'd trim those down by, um, uh...

It was, it was about 2002, I think.

She'd just, she was quite a quick eater, and she didn't like sitting for ages at a banquet.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

... because there hadn't been a proper Duke of Cornwall, uh, un- until he came along, for a very long time, for the simple reason that under the rules that used to apply, you could only be Duke of Cornwall if you were the eldest son of the monarch.

Well, um, and, and, and obviously, you know, Princess Elizabeth was not the eldest son of George VI, so there hadn't been a Prince of Wales since Edward VIII had the duchy.

It had really sort of just stagnated.

No one had really given it much thought.

Uh, when you don't have a Duke of Cornwall, uh, all its revenues go straight to the treasury, so the treasury was quite happy to pocket this money.

So Charles comes along in the mid, early, early '70s, um, and he really does sort of, um, shake things up a bit.

Mm

Mm.

Um, and he thought she was great.

They both found that in common they had both had Scottish mothers, which was a sort of, uh, a commonality, and, and so was the fact that they both had fairly substantial properties in, in Scotland.

Um, Queen's got Balmoral, and the Highlands, and, and, and lots of other stuff, and, uh, President Trump has, has two golf courses there.

So there was, there was that sort of, you know, they got on on that front.

And then the following year he came back on his state visit, and it coincided with the 75th anniversary of D-Day, and D-Day is a really big deal for the Queen, the last world leader, um, to wear uniform in the Second World War.

Uh, and she always took that very seriously, and she always took the Transatlantic Alliance very seriously.

But, uh, you know, was the Queen worried about her?

Up first, Robert Hardman.

Elizabeth II was never particularly enthusiastic about birthdays.

They were a good excuse for a parade or an honors list, but not a patch on a major wedding anniversary, let alone a jubilee.

Those were a celebration of true dedication, not of mere longevity.

Even so, were she still with us, the late Queen would have acknowledged that her centenary on Tuesday is a big deal.

It would also have created a delightful conundrum for the Buckingham Palace Anniversaries Office, the department that sends out one hundredth birthday congratulations from the Sovereign.

At the start of her reign, she was sending three hundred and eighty-five of those each year across all her realms by telegram.

But isn't it slightly surprising that the Queen, who famously got on very well with the Obamas, for instance, should have been quite so entranced by Donald Trump, and the King, as you wrote, maintained this kind of pen pal relationship with Donald Trump between the two presidencies?

Hmm.

Well, I, I think people tend to look very much in sort of present and think, well, you know, Donald Trump's just said something appalling, therefore, how could the Queen possibly have liked him? But, um, he is-- uh, he does have this sort of old world US sort of manners.

Uh, and that, that was put to me by someone who knew her very well.

So she, she-- It was an interesting phrase.

Someone said that he-- there was something mid-century about him.

There was an old-fashioned American, um, you know, charm, um, uh, which he can, he can deploy when he wants to.

Do you think that is something the Queen believed or is that something the senior aide believed?

I want to know what she was really like and have you ever seen her give anyone Did she give you the look,

Robert? Nearly.

The only time I ever did get invited to a state banquet, actually, and you're all lined up and there's a greeting line, everyone shakes hands on the way in.

And I was only invited because at the time I was making a documentary on her Dermot Jubilee year.

And I remember going into dinner, falling behind the Foreign Secretary.

So I thought, I'll go behind William Hague, because he's important.

No one's going to care about this sort of TV bloke.

Can you tell us some of those moments?

It's very interesting, the idea that quiet faith is in the headline.

I thought, well, that's a good one.

Because we all remember when his father talked about 1994 being defender of faith as well as defender of the faith.

That was a direct quote from the horse's mouth or from the prince's mouth then to Jonathan Dimbleby.

And that was, you know, that was... that caused much debate this time around these are the words of a spokesman um not from the prince himself and the actual words were and i've got them here the the words from the spokesman to the sunday times were the prince of wales's commitment to the church of england is sometimes quieter than people expect and for that reason it is not always fully understood Those who know him well recognize that his connection to the church and to the sense of duty that comes with it runs deep.

So what we have there is essentially there is a quiet belief in the church, but I read it through quite carefully, and I was writing about it that day, and I thought, well, hang on, the question that we really need to know is, does he believe in God? And so I spoke to Kensington Palace myself, and they were standing by, obviously, all the remarks in the Sunday Times, a very good piece by Roy Nicker in there.

But what it lacked was, you know, obviously, does he believe in God? And I put that to Kensington Palace and back came the reply, of course.

I'm afraid if you read between the lines, it's not a very cheerful message, is

Um, but I mean, canceling the visit would not necessarily sort of bring about a change in behavior on his part.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't think anyone's talking about canceling.

I mean, the, the talk is of postponing.

But I think even postponing it, uh, would be a mistake because this is a visit that is very much pegged to a specific date.

It's not just a run-of-the-mill state visit.

This year is the 250th anniversary of the United States.

[laughs]