Yeah.

Yeah.

It was really hard to read, but anyway, that was funny.

And I can picture Ted with his Cheshire shed.

Yeah.

Cheshire cat grin going.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, Rob, I think – do you have some big picture thoughts?

Well, yeah.

I mean I guess to counterpoint, I'm not surprised, right? And I have like a – 50,000-foot view and one that's closer in.

So I think on the larger view, we've been saying this for decades now that like when it comes to traditional coffee drinkers, they're aging out, right? It's just a simple generation thing.

I remember having a conversation – with a person who was about 15 years older than me and they told me that when they were being raised part of their manners education was to learn to drink coffee black because you don't want to show up at someone's house and ask them for other stuff when they offer you coffee you don't want to be like oh do you have this you have that right it was like you should just learn how to drink black coffee because that's how people make it in their kitchen right And I was like, wow, that's a generational thing because I certainly don't think that way.

And I know younger generations don't think that way.

As a matter of fact, you get dinged on Airbnb if you're hosting your place and you don't have milk in the fridge, right? So I think that just the people who drank black coffee reflexively, whether because of necessity or because that was just a thing to do, there's less and less of them.

And if you're a roaster, even if you're hesitant to sort of accept this prevailing narrative, I mean, it does present a very good strategic set of opportunities for you.

getting something.

You're getting as much out of it as you're putting into it.

You do.

You get a lot out of it.

I was thinking there at the weekend, I don't know whether you've heard of this thing that's called the five ways to well-being.

They did research years ago to identify what makes people mentally well.

And rather than look at mental illness, what they said, okay, let's look at a whole lot of people who have got good well-being, who are mentally well.

Every bit

And I guess speaking of the coffee value assessment system, your own you're in trading um you are still talking in numbers 82s 84s 86s and um but you also know the coffee value assessment system well what are your views on how the cva will be adopted by the industry what is the value of it how can it be adopted by the industry

i can think of the cva with you know, I can hold two thoughts in my head at the same time.

I can think of it as a, as a concerned coffee professional is someone who's been in the industry a long time and, you know, and someone who, someone who believes that because we work in a capitalist system that, you know, capitalist business, uh, you know, systems do not get a conscience until they're required to.

Right.

And, you know, so we, we will not as an industry find a way to preserve the coffee and coffee growing and that side of the industry until we are threatened.

Right.

And we're still not there.

Are co-ferments today the naturals of 20 years ago, when naturals were first becoming popular and a lot of traditional cuppers were like, these things are defective? Or is it a new category in itself? Or is a co-ferment just a rehashing of the old-flavored coffees? Where do you see them in the market?

We're

next.

We're next.

Yeah, yeah.

I always have that feeling of like there has to be somebody more adultier than me.

But my reflection on that was that.

They were talking a lot about what was driving the business forward.

So unless someone on the outside sort of tells you –