Lead

poisoning affects the nervous system and the brain, so it makes it harder for children to do well.

At high levels, it can lead to permanent damage and even death.

And the groups who were effective in fighting against lead poisoning realized they needed to bring together several different constituencies.

the parents and families of children who were lead poisoned, who had a very high motivation for doing something about this problem in order to protect and restore their child.

The tenants of buildings where landlords weren't doing what they needed to do to protect their children from lead poisoning, cockroaches and rats, inadequate heat, a whole range of housing problems.

And that this was one more issue they cared about and it provided a vehicle for tenants associations and housing justice groups to reach more people and bring them together.

Now, Dr. Freudenberg, coalition buildings, appears throughout your work? What allows people with different backgrounds, priorities and identities to unite around a shared purpose? And what most often causes those coalitions to fracture?

Now, we've talked positively so far, but as well as things which should be better known, is there anything really famous you wish was much less well-known?

Yes.

Uh, I want to talk a little about the, uh, Fight for 15 campaign, and that was a workers' rights movement that looked to raise the minimum wage from $7 an hour, which was the federal standard, to $15 an hour.

This campaign in New York City began in 2012.

The New York City and the state and the nation, uh, labor rights activists had been looking to raise the minimum wage for more than 25 years and had consistently failed because employers said, "We can't afford it.

It will lead to the loss of jobs." There was very little evidence to support that contention, but these were powerful players who could afford to support political candidates who endorsed that position.

So we didn't see much progress.

So what are some of the barriers? Why don't causes get better at building that cross-class and cross-regional support? What's preventing them from doing that?

I mentioned in the intro the executive order from Trump from just yesterday on vaccines, which seeks to break up the MMR vaccine into three shots and seeks to use the Justice Department to end vaccine mandates for kids entering schools how does your and obviously your book came out before that executive order but in the midst of trump and rfk's um current reign how do you think what you wrote about in a history book most applies to today

sure and i think what uh motivated me to write the book was the feeling, certainly more so after 24, but really over the last period that we in New York City and the nation face really a cascade of health problems that look as serious and worrisome to me as any I've seen in the 50 years or so that I've been observing public health.

We have the climate emergencies, the heating, the air pollution from wildfires, the outbreaks of explosive diarrhea, antivirus.

And so I was really concerned that there was concerted undermining of public health.

And I think the Trump administration, Trump and RFK, really illustrate that.

Because not only have they been undermining the science and the evidence that undermines public health, but they've also been cutting funding for Medicaid and SNAP, for example, throwing people off those two lifesaving programs that just move, that protect people from falling into poverty.

And as well as changing the recommendations around vaccinations, cutting what Medicaid reimburses for.

So I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on that.

Tell me more, my friend.

Sure, so I think there, a few key messages.

The book is focused on New York, but I think New York has a long history of being both a starting place of many of the most serious public health problems facing the United States and really the world, and also a cradle for public health innovation.

So my hope was by focusing on New York, I could learn lessons that would be relevant both from our successes and failures for other cities and other places in the world, including countries like Canada and the UK and South Africa and so on.

There are important differences among those places, but they face many of the same problems.

The second reason I wanted to write the book is from my teaching and my work in activism.

And this is particularly true in recent years.

So what are your message to people about being persistent about meaningful change, my friend?

I want you to tell me about some of your victories and how maybe they can relate to the rest of us.

Sure.

So I think there, I can mention a few issues I had the privilege of working on.

One was childhood lead poisoning, and a lot of groups from the Young Lords to housing and tenant associations have fought to reduce childhood lead poisoning, one of the most serious threats to children's health in New York City and in other parts of the country.

And over the years, New York City went from having very high rates of lead poisoning to much lower rates.

And that was because activists forced city government to pass stronger laws, to focus on getting landlords to change what they did, to check their apartments, to clean up and cover up leaded paint, rather than using children as the canaries in the mine to test for places that had lead poisoning.

And those changes came about as a result of activism.

What are some of the mistakes people make?

I wonder if you could give everyone a sense of your activism and then where we are today and how, in a sense, that activism still holds a lot of hope.

Sure.

And I think those are the questions a lot of people are asking.

It's a question that activists I work with, especially the younger folks and my students at the City University of New York, where I teach public health.

So I became active during the movement against the war in Vietnam in the 1960s and was active in a variety of anti-war, civil rights, and community struggles in New York City.

And I then was looking for a place to have a career and make a difference and got into public health.

And so for the last 50 years or so, I've been working, continuing to work as an activist, but also as a scholar and teacher around public health.

So these are successes you've made through these decades, and yet you make a central part of the ongoing questions the ways in which many of these efforts and activist efforts intersect and all can feed each other, I think.

And, and what were some of the th- the, the kind of the things that they did that you thought were-- obviously, you ne- you, you, you talk about the particular pieces of activism, but, um, you know, some of the other activities that they did that kind of pointed them out as different or, you know, uniquely, uh, sort of successful in their way compared to other stand-- other forms of health ac- health activism.

Sure.

I'll, I'll tell two stories, uh, that I think illustrate, uh, the approach of the Young Lords.

One is around, uh, lead poisoning, uh, an issue I did some work on myself, uh, in the '80s, uh, and early '90s.

And what the Young Lords did was they noticed that rates of lead poisoning were much higher in Puerto Rican and Black communities.

Lead poisoning, uh, is, uh-- affects particularly children whose nervous system is, uh, very vulnerable to lead exposure.

And, uh, in the long run, it can lead to, uh, behavioral problems, retardation, and in the worst cases, even death.

Uh, and how did the, the, the groups, groups like ACT UP, uh, address AIDS and look at stigma both in terms of, you know, the, the, the healthcare per- perspective, but also in terms of addressing the social stigma aspect of the problem?

And what were some of the kind of the things that they did that you thought were, obviously, you talk about the particular pieces of activism, but, you know, some of the other activities that they did that kind of pointed them out as different or, you know, uniquely sort of successful in their way compared to other forms of health activism? Yeah.

Sure.

I'll tell two stories that I think illustrate the approach of the Young Lords.

One is around lead poisoning, an issue I did some work on myself in the 80s and early 90s.

And what the Young Lords did was they noticed that rates of lead poisoning were much higher in Puerto Rican and Black communities.

Lead poisoning is... particularly children whose nervous system is very vulnerable to lead exposure.

And in the long run, it can lead to behavioral problems, retardation, and in the worst cases, even death.

And how did the groups, groups like ACT UP, address AIDS and look at stigma, both in terms of, you know, the healthcare perspective, but also in terms of addressing the social stigma aspect of the problem.

And what were some of the kind of the things that they did that you thought were, obviously, you talk about the particular pieces of activism, but, you know, some of the other activities that they did that kind of pointed them out as different or, you know, uniquely sort of successful in their way compared to other forms of health activism? Yeah.

Sure.

I'll tell two stories that I think illustrate the approach of the Young Lords.

One is around lead poisoning, an issue I did some work on myself in the 80s and early 90s.

And what the Young Lords did was they noticed that rates of lead poisoning were much higher in Puerto Rican and Black communities.

Lead poisoning is uh affects particularly children whose nervous system is very vulnerable to lead exposure and in the long run it can lead to behavioral problems retardation and in the worst cases even death And what they observed was that the city wasn't doing all it could to fight lead poisoning.

And they noticed that the number of children tested for lead poisoning, there's a test for lead poisoning.

How did the groups, groups like ACT UP, address AIDS and look at stigma both in terms of, you know, the healthcare perspective, but also in terms of addressing the social stigma aspect of the problem?

And, and what were some of the th- the, the kind of the things that they did that you thought-- Obviously, you know, you, you, you talk about the particular pieces of activism, but, um, you know, some of the other activities that they did that kind of pointed them out as different or, you know, uniquely, uh, sort of successful in their way compared to other stand-- other forms of health ac- health activism.

Sure.

I'll, I'll tell two stories, uh, that I think illustrate, uh, the approach of the Young Lords.

One is around, uh, lead poisoning, uh, an issue I did some work on myself, uh, in the '80s, uh, and early '90s.

And what the Young Lords did was they noticed that rates of lead poisoning were much higher in Puerto Rican and Black communities.

Lead poisoning, uh, is, uh, affects particularly children whose nervous system is, uh, very vulnerable to lead exposure, and, uh, in the long run, it can lead to, uh, behavioral problems, retardation, and in the worst cases, even death.

Uh, and what they observed was that the city wasn't doing all it could to fight lead poisoning, and they noticed that the, uh, number of children tested for lead poisoning, there's a test for lead poisoning, and if you find someone has an elevated level, you can institute treatments, and you can also fix their apartment, uh, in other words, take out the lead paint.

Uh, and how did the, the, the groups, groups like ACT UP, uh, address AIDS and look at stigma both in terms of, you know, the, the, the healthcare per- perspective, but also in terms of addressing the social stigma aspect of the problem?

And, and what were some of the th- the, the kind of the things that they did that you thought-- Obviously, you, you, you talk about the particular pieces of activism, but, um, you know, some of the other activities that they did that kind of pointed them out as different or, you know, uniquely, uh, sort of successful in their way compared to other stand- other forms of health a- health activism.

Sure.

I'll, I'll tell two stories, uh, that I think illustrate, uh, the approach of the Young Lords.

One is around, uh, lead poisoning, uh, an issue I did some work on myself, uh, in the '80s, uh, and early '90s.

And what the Young Lords did was they noticed that rates of lead poisoning were much higher in Puerto Rican and Black communities.

Lead poisoning, uh, is, uh, affects particularly children whose nervous system is, uh, very vulnerable to lead exposure.

And, uh, in the long run, it can lead to, uh, behavioral problems, retardation, and in the worst cases, even death.

Uh, and how did the, the, the groups, groups like ACT UP, uh, address AIDS and look at stigma both in terms of, you know, the, the, the healthcare per- perspective, but also in terms of addressing the social stigma aspect of the problem?

And what were some of the kind of the things that they did that you thought were, obviously, you talk about the particular pieces of activism, but, you know, some of the other activities that they did that kind of pointed them out as different or, you know, uniquely sort of successful in their way compared to other forms of health activism? Yeah.

Sure.

I'll tell two stories that I think illustrate the approach of the Young Lords.

One is around lead poisoning, an issue I did some work on myself in the 80s and early 90s.

And what the Young Lords did was they noticed that rates of lead poisoning were much higher in Puerto Rican and Black communities.

Lead poisoning is... particularly children whose nervous system is very vulnerable to lead exposure.

And in the long run, it can lead to behavioral problems, retardation, and in the worst cases, even death.

How did the groups, groups like ACT UP, address AIDS and look at stigma both in terms of, you know, the healthcare perspective, but also in terms of addressing the social stigma aspect of the problem?

And what were some of the kind of the things that they did that you thought were, obviously, you talk about the particular pieces of activism, but, you know, some of the other activities that they did that kind of pointed them out as different or, you know, uniquely sort of successful in their way compared to other forms of health activism? Yeah.

Sure, I'll tell two stories that I think illustrate the approach of the Young Lords.

One is around lead poisoning, an issue I did some work on myself in the 80s and early 90s.

And what the Young Lords did was they noticed that rates of lead poisoning were much higher in Puerto Rican and Black communities.

Lead poisoning It affects particularly children whose nervous system is very vulnerable to lead exposure.

And in the long run, it can lead to behavioral problems, retardation, and in the worst cases, even death.

And what they observed was that the city wasn't doing all it could to fight lead poisoning.

And how did the groups like ACT UP address AIDS and look at stigma both in terms of the healthcare perspective but also in terms of addressing the social stigma aspect of the problem?

Obviously, you, you, you talk about the particular pieces of activism, but, um, you know, some of the other activities that they did that kind of pointed them out as different or, you know, uniquely, uh, sort of successful in their way compared to other stand- other forms of health a- health activism.

Sure.

I'll, I'll tell two stories, uh, that I think illustrate, uh, the approach of the Young Lords.

One is around, uh, lead poisoning, uh, an issue I did some work on myself, uh, in the '80s, uh, and early '90s.

And what the Young Lords did was they noticed that rates of lead poisoning were much higher in Puerto Rican and Black communities.

Lead poisoning, uh, is, uh, affects particularly children whose nervous system is, uh, very vulnerable to lead exposure.

And, uh, in the long run, it can lead to, uh, behavioral problems, retardation, and in the worst cases, even death.

Uh, and how did the, the, the groups, groups like ACT UP, uh, address AIDS and look at stigma both in terms of, you know, the, the, the healthcare per- perspective, but also in terms of addressing the social stigma aspect of the problem?

And I mean, like some of the things that you wanted that you were, you know, taking with you this entire journey that you want to share with us so we can learn.

Sure.

So I was a student at Columbia, started in 66, and quickly got involved in the student movement there that was fighting around against the war in Vietnam and against the university's expansion into Harlem, taking over housing and public land and so on.

And many of us were concerned about the role that Columbia was playing in the world, in New York, and in Harlem.

And so we decided to do something about it.

And I think that experience was really formative for me, that when people get together, find allies, we work to create alliances with community organizations in Harlem, with anti-war groups in New York City and in other cities.

we can have an impact.

Where would you like to point folks as far as that sort of angle of activism?

And I mean, like some of the things that you wanted that you were, you know, taking with you this entire journey that you want to share with us so we can learn.

Sure.

So I was a student at Columbia, started in 66, and quickly got involved in the student movement there that was fighting around against the war in Vietnam and against the university's expansion into Harlem, taking over housing and public land and so on.

And many of us were concerned about...

the role that Colombia was playing in the world, in New York, and in Harlem.

And so we decided to do something about it.

And I think that experience was really formative for me, that when people get together, find allies, we work to create alliances with community organizations in Harlem, with anti-war groups in New York City and in other cities, we can have an impact.

Where would you like to point folks as far as that sort of angle of activism?