Now, we've talked positively so far, but as well as things which should be better known, is there anything really famous you wish was much less well-known?

Yes.

Uh, I want to talk a little about the, uh, Fight for 15 campaign, and that was a workers' rights movement that looked to raise the minimum wage from $7 an hour, which was the federal standard, to $15 an hour.

This campaign in New York City began in 2012.

The New York City and the state and the nation, uh, labor rights activists had been looking to raise the minimum wage for more than 25 years and had consistently failed because employers said, "We can't afford it.

It will lead to the loss of jobs." There was very little evidence to support that contention, but these were powerful players who could afford to support political candidates who endorsed that position.

So we didn't see much progress.

So what are some of the barriers? Why don't causes get better at building that cross-class and cross-regional support? What's preventing them from doing that?