But like we've had some really deep and interesting discussions, like really, really powerful characterization, like in The Substance or, you know, those kind of, you can really change people's, what people think, can't you, Nasa? Absolutely.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because I think that it's we talk about sort of trying to be very careful about giving either a very positive or very negative depiction of aging when we talk about films that are about aging.

But there's actually a lot of films or books and things that are about other parts of aging and we don't necessarily or the parts of the life course that we don't necessarily think, oh, that was a particularly, that was like overly negative, overly positive.

And the one that comes to my mind is, is like a coming of age story.

So like teen movies or teen dramas or teen films, they're very rarely both positive or negative.

They're often will, you know, explore like all of the deep challenges it is, is as you enter kind of into early adulthood and, you know, they can be very harrowing and I'm thinking you know something like The Virgin Suicides or they can be something very light-hearted like something like Juno from a few years ago or whatever but they're still very honest and that's the thing that they're like it's a true depiction and nobody's really necessarily saying that they're like fatalistic about the process of growing up because nobody ever says that but nor are they saying that it's all kind of um know Rosie in the garden that everything is so perfect and what a beautiful thing it is to kind of grow into adulthood it's hard it's challenging all parts of life are hard and challenging and I think that it's the issue is that with when it came to kind of older life that we were missing that nuance and it was always about this decline dominated narrative and always about the sort of fatalistic narrative that it's nothing but terrible and loss and decline whereas it's not true it's there is all of those things do exist but there's also this like entirely dynamic transformative experience where you are kind of consolidating all the wisdom your life you're still learning new things all the time and as you know des is talking about like late life creativity is this extremely rich area of of um output for you know older artists and things so it's just interesting i think it's just it's to bring that into the frame again and that it doesn't have to be any one thing.

It just needs to be kind of, I suppose, honest and true and to the best of an artist's ability.

But Nasa, would you like to talk, mention the session? Yeah.