[laughs]

And so I, I ended up setting everything up.

I made cool flyers.

I texted everyone in the congregation.

I was so excited to get all these people back, to really get a lot of people.

So I put the, the sodas on ice, and I put out the, the, the napkins in a little, like, circle, and it was all fancy, and I got all the burgers ready.

And, um, and I put out a collection basket for donations, 'cause it costs, like, hundreds of dollars for all this stuff, and it's just easily recoupable with that many people.

[laughs]

[audience applauding]

I'm not what you would call the biggest fan of church.

[audience laughing] Which can be awkward since, um, technically I'm a Lutheran pastor.

[audience laughing] My, uh, my dislike of church I came by honestly.

I was raised in a really very strict, conservative Christian church where there was just a whole lot of rules and very little fun and no possibility of actually getting to be my whole self.

And so when I felt the call to go to seminary, I thought, "You know what I want is to start a church from scratch." There could be very few rules, a whole lot of fun, and everyone gets to be themselves.

So in 2008, I founded a congregation called House for All Sinners and Saints.

[laughs]

Yeah

...

in a way that, um, is, like, e- seen as, as, like, a virtue or something to strive for.

I mean, the moment right now is like you're a girl boss, and everything about you is amazing, and everyone who's in relationship with you should affirm everything about you, and any thought you have should be put out and affirmed.

And I mean, it's just...

And if anybody, you know, doesn't have the same worldview as you, you just cut them out if they're not affirming everything.

It, uh, it's just, it's crazy, you know? And I'm like, I don't...

Yeah.

Yeah

...

in a way that, um, is like seen as, as like a virtue or something to strive for.

I mean, the moment right now is like you're a girl boss, and everything about you is amazing, and everyone who's in relationship with you should affirm everything about you, and any thought you have should be put out and affirmed.

And I mean, it's just...

And if anybody, you know, doesn't have the same worldview as you, you just cut them out if they're not affirming everything.

It, uh, it's just, it's crazy, you know? And I'm like, I doubt that the perennial wisdom of like pretty much every major sort of spiritual tradition [laughs] sees like humility as a virtue, as something that i- is, um, is spiritually rich.

Nadia, what, uh, what in your neck of the woods, what have you... what has crossed your path lately that makes you feel like we shouldn't just, um, hard reset the world and start over?

Mm-hmm.

I love the thing about you can't, we can't, we, maybe we can't fix the world, but we can love it, you know? And I don't know, finding ways to love the world, I think it's, you know, there's a barrage of negative, negative s- words and images that we're exposed to online that makes us go, "Oh, this is the, this is the world we live in," right? And it, not saying they're convoluted or they're not true, but they're selected.

They're, you know, they're selected, and, and there's, and there's none, it, it, there's nothing unmediated, right? There, it, it, there's always ...

It want- They're cr- selected to evoke something really particular in us, and it works.

And yet, Eric and I were on another one of our long walks, uh, across the UK we did, and it was after my breast cancer diagnosis.

We walked from the Irish Sea to the North Sea across England, and there, it was, uh, through these three national parks, and they're, uh, you know, there's just, they're, it's undeveloped national park space in the UK.

And it was just the world, and it, and it was so beautiful, and I kept telling myself, "This is the world.

Yeah

Mm-hmm.

I love the thing about you can't, we can't, we, maybe we can't fix the world, but we can love it, you know? And I don't know, finding ways to love the world, I think it's, you know, there's a barrage of negative, negative s- words and images that we're exposed to online that makes us go, "Oh, this is the, this is the world we live in," right? And it, not saying they're convoluted or they're not true, but they're selected.

They're, you know, they're selected, and, and there's, and there's none, it, it, there's nothing unmediated, right? There, it, it's, there's always ...

It want- They're cr- selected to evoke something really particular in us, and it works.

And yet, Eric and I were on another one of our long walks, uh, across the UK we did, and it was after my [sniffs] breast cancer diagnosis.

We walked from the Irish Sea to the North Sea across England, and there, it was, uh, through these three national parks, and they're, uh, you know, there's just, they're, it's undeveloped national park space in the UK.

And it was just the world, and it, and it was so beautiful, and I kept telling myself, "This is the world.

Yeah

Mm.

So for that to be the central idea of the theology I thought was so beautiful.

And so I kind of dipped my toe back into Christianity.

But then a friend of mine, who was also a stand-up comic and also a recovering alcoholic, he ended up losing his battle with mental illness, and he took his own life.

And when PJ died, all my friends looked at me and they're like, "Well, you can do the funeral, right?" I hadn't been to seminary.

I was the only religious person in my whole friend group.

And so they're like, "Obviously you'll do it." And it was at the Comedy Works downtown, it was packed and it was all these comics and alcoholics and academics, and it, it was so clear that nobody had a container for this.

That I've seen how it has helped me and changed me.