The hardest conversation I've ever had was blank.

Oh, geez.

I can't tell you over the last decade how many hard conversations I've had to have.

There's always been like a major life moment that has happened.

I mean, whether or not it's talking with a doctor about letting Laura pass away.

It's about having a conversation with James about having Jade move in with us.

It's about asking for permission from Laura's mother for me to be able to date again.

Thank

And you've also created this amazing book, which, wow, what, like, was it a labor of love? Was it something you kind of always wanted to do? Like, what was the genesis of that?

Yeah, I came up with a book.

It's out now called Where the Wild Heart Grows.

And the origin of it's really interesting because I really wasn't setting out to write a book.

I was setting out to find ways of talking to my son about some of the heavy emotions that were going on at that time for both he and I.

And I never really knew how to breach that subject in an awkward way.

And so we always read at bedtime.

Do you think there's more judgment towards widowers than widows? Do you think there's like a difference in the way that people see how they process grief and like how they carry on after?

But Michael, just to let our fans know s- a little bit more about you, how would you describe the version of Michael that walked onto The Bachelorette compared to who you are today? I know you've been through quite a bit.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I think anyone who's been on the show, um, and been on The Bachelor, Bachelorette, any of the, the franchise shows, you get a, a snippet of, of what each person is.

You never get the totality of what any individual is.

And I mean, I would say, looking back on, uh, myself in The Bachelorette role, it was two years after Laura had passed.

I was very much caught up in grief and, you know, trying to figure out where my life was really going, how I was gonna make, y- you know, these next leaps and chapters into my life happen.

You know, it was two years as a single parent.

Go, baby.

... is getting better.

But here's the thing.

Statistics show loneliness, depression, all-time high.

So correlation here.

You got more access to healthcare.

You got more people talking about it, and yet we're lonely and depressed.

Our tools aren't working.

There's gotta be a better way to talk about it.

And I have two boys and two girls and the boys really feel it.

You know, hats, hats off to our club.

Right.

Like I, you know, I'm.

I have to apply, and I think I'm going to speak for you guys too, because I can feel it.

We have to apply some sort of purpose to it.

And we have to extract lessons from what life has given us, or else it's all in vain.

Two things can be true at once loving more than one person at once, but I'm,

And I have two boys and two girls and the boys really feel it.

You know, hats, hats off to our club.

Right.

Like I, I, I, You know, I have to apply, and I think I'm going to speak for you guys too, because I can feel it.

We have to apply some sort of purpose to it.

And we have to extract lessons from what life has given us, or else it's all in vain.

And it's not toxic positivity.

Two things can be true at once loving more than one person at once, but I'm,

Did you have time to process your gr- you know, grief, or has that been, like, really delayed and coming in to focus now, you know, maybe a little later in life?

I, I think that's a great question, and I think grief often gets this broad brushstroke.

You know, we all lost somebody, but all of our grief is so incredibly different, and none is better, less painful than the other.

They're all different.

And we can see benefits and, and, and we can learn lessons throughout the whole thing, but it doesn't take away the challenge and the pain of, of, of trying to find your identity and your footing after life just really goes unplanned.

And, you know, with, with James and with my own dealing with grief, I, I was kinda thrown into it.

I really...

How do you think this will help children to comprehend grief and loss?

Did, did you have time to process your gr- you know, grief? Or has that been, like, really delayed and coming in to focus now, you know, maybe a little later in life?

I, I think that's a great question.

And I think grief often gets this broad brushstroke.

You know, we all lost somebody, but all of our grief is so incredibly different, and none is better, less painful than the other.

They're all different.

And we can see benefits and, and, and we can learn lessons throughout the whole thing, but it doesn't take away the challenge and the pain of, of, of trying to find your identity and your footing after life just really goes unplanned.

And, you know, with, with James and with my own dealing with grief, I, I was kinda thrown into it.

How do you think this will help children to comprehend grief and loss?

And I have two boys and two girls and the boys really feel it.

You know, hats, hats off to our club, right? Like I, I, You know, I have to apply, and I think I'm going to speak for you guys too, because I can feel it.

We have to apply some sort of purpose to it.

And we have to extract lessons from what life has given us, or else it's all in vain.

And it's not toxic positivity.

It's nothing like that.

But...

Two things can be true at once loving more than one person at once, but I'm,

I'd like to hear about Like the way you process your grief, you have a young child, did you have time to process your grief or has that been like really delayed and coming in to focus now, you know, maybe a little later in life?

I think that's a great question.

And I think grief often gets this broad brushstroke.

You know, we all lost somebody, but all of our grief is so incredibly different.

And none is better, less painful than the other.

They're all different.

And we can see benefits and we can learn lessons throughout the whole thing, but it doesn't take away the challenge and the pain of trying to find your identity and your footing after life just really goes unplanned.

Two things can be true at once loving more than one person at once, but I'm,

And I have two boys and two girls and the boys really feel it.

You know, hats, hats off to our club.

Right.

Like I.

You know, I have to apply, and I think I'm going to speak for you guys too, because I can feel it.

We have to apply some sort of purpose to it.

And we have to extract lessons from what life has given us, or else it's all in vain.

Two things can be true at once loving more than one person at once, but I'm,

I love that.

And this is without Facebook.

This is without, I didn't have her cellphone.

I ended up seeing her in the cafeteria the following fall, and lived up to my promise.

So we were together for 16 years.

We hit all of life's milestones, got the job, uh, you know, moved together, grew together, and had a kid, uh, James.

And when we welcomed him into the world, uh, we had about seven, seven months of bliss before, uh, we found breast cancer.

Did, did you have time to process your gr- you know, grief, or has that been, like, really delayed and coming in to focus now, you know, maybe a little later in life?

And then once it gets out into the world, will it be in bookstores or what's the best way for people to go grab it?

The best place right now is the wild heart grows.com. And the book really has this old world feel to it.

So it's actually 150 pages each.

Yeah.

Each illustration is, was done with oil on canvas by a professional painter, Luke Streeter.

You guys should check him out.

James' best friend is his son, and they go to school together.

So for you as a dad doing this project and then presenting it to your son, who I'm guessing was the motivation behind a lot of this.

Mm-hmm

... tougher conversations.

And I think one of the biggest misconceptions about this book is that it's about grief.

It's about growing up.

It's, it's, it's about overcoming, um, these challenging seasons in your life, and I use nature as a metaphor to be able to teach kids in a very simplistic, kind of beautiful way.

Because the best, the best wisdom and lessons that I have ever learned have always been the simplest, and a lot of times, I found that wisdom in kids books.

I'm not sure if you've seen the same, but some of these kids books that are out there, the way they, they, they simplify things, almost things that we were taught a long time ago and since have forgotten.

Wow.

was mormon yeah married

yeah and moved to utah then that wasn't The love wasn't what she wanted and ended up leaving with next to no money, moving to LA and starting this incredible career for herself.

I admire all of the hard work that you have put in and how humble you remain despite the fact that by all measurable levels, that would be like the most successful career for anybody out there.

You continue to impress me every single day, even after five years of knowing each other.

You're remarkable, not just as a beauty influencer, but as a person.

She shows up for my son in the most amazing ways.

And for the longest time, it's like I have just this quiet house.

Tell me a little bit about what we need to know about.

[laughs]

I, I don't have the manual.

I don't, I don't think, I don't think anybody has the manual.

It, because it was the first for me, so it's like, I'm not an expert.

You can only write it by experiencing it.

And all of these things were a first, and, you know, there, there's growing pains.

Anybody who has a blended family, whether that's divorce or whether it's being widowed, anything, when you're bringing all these personalities and experiences together, there's a lot to manage, and we have spent the time in the right places, and now we're just reaping the benefits of a good connection with our whole entire household.

Hmm.