How important is that? How do you do that? Because I've already got the answer,

Mark.

Yeah.

I think it's being a student of your kids as well as you know them on so many different things.

And a lot of our conversations here as we're trying to talk through how to have them start with a good question to try to get them to talk about it.

It feels a little bit like a softer entrance ramp too, into the conversation as well.

We're not just coming in hot with what we wanna say on it, but we wanna hear where they're at.

You're saying they should respect that?

Mm-hmm.

We're not just coming in hot with what we wanna say on it, but we wanna hear where they're at.

And as they're talking about it, I'm not just thinking about my objective and where the, I'm gonna take them, but thinking really of the best route to get there based on what they're saying, based on what they're struggling with, based on what their fears are or maybe their understanding or lack of understanding of the Bible in that situation as they're talking about it.

So we're listening for all those things, uh, to think about how best to answer.

Yeah.

And that was, like, at the center of what was so difficult for them.

So while maybe the parents, and me initially, all I'm hearing is the anger at all these things that the parents were doing or the dad was doing that was unfair or whatever, as harsh of a critic as they might have been as, of their parent, at the core of that was just a disappointment of who they wanted them to be.

And I will say I did see many times parents earn that back, dads earn that back, because they noticed it and they saw and they started new habits.

Would you like to do this together? I think we need to do this together." So that became an intro to this first project, and then of course, the publisher, they were thrilled about it too.

And I think for me, seeing...

You know, when he asked me to be part of it, knowing that this matters.

Over the course of student ministry for so many years, seeing, really having a front row seat to so many parents' approach to conversations and the ones who I saw the benefit to their high school and middle school students that their parents were having these conversations or attempting to have these conversations and really watching that.

It's become one of the things that as I, like, zoom out and look at what matters during the teenage years, that's like one of the core things, is parents talking with their kids about these issues, about these topics, helping them develop and grow in that.

So to work on a project to be a resource for parents in that, 'cause I know it's an intimidating thing for parents, that's why they don't do it as often as...

Yeah, uh, it got me excited to be part of that

Yeah.

Mm

... what would seem like insignificant conversations that have nothing to do with these tricky, intimidating conversations, and you build it up.

So I was, um...

Could look like, when you see it off a little bit, coaching and correcting in a way.

So, uh, another example [laughs] of my daughter here, but recently after dinner, I noticed my son, nine years old, uh, he had won an award at school, and he was so excited about it.

He saved it for the dinner table to talk about it and everything, and then, um, you know, he shares it, and there was excitement, but not really from my daughter.

She just couldn't wait to share her thing.

Mm-hmm

And, and really listen to them and, uh, be patient with their pauses, uh, so that they can finally get those words out there.

The, um ...

I'm not just saying this 'cause he's next to me.

But, um, my experience growing up was very positive with this.

I didn't have him exasperating me, and there were these conversations and listening and all that stuff to the point where I thought that was, um, common and just to be expected.

And then, um, it didn't take me very long in student ministry to see that this was not common and that there's actually many houses that there's a lot of conflict and there's a lot of, um ...

And, and it's easy to just point at the student and for some of how they're acting out, the, the teenager and how they're acting out, without evaluating if there's something on the parent's end that has done something to push them and to anger them or to, you know, push them away in some ways.

Right