But then him being Middle Eastern really gets into what that looked like, what that Protestant missions work looked like, uh, on the ground, and just fascinating work in that, in that analysis of, of colonialism and, and missions.

Yeah, I wa- I wanna jump in here with a little conceptual tool that comes to us from the work of, uh, Mennonite conflict transformation specialist Betty Pries.

And she, i- in her book, The Space Between Us, she talks about the architecture of the self, how we all have a descriptive self, and then there's the defended self and the deeper self.

But this architecture of selfhood operates in cultures and societies that tend to orient us toward what she calls, or she and others have described as diagonal arguments.

So if you imagine this kind of a, a grid of four quadrants, in the top half of that quadrant is the pros, and then the bottom half of the quadrant are the cons.

And what typically will happen is I will champion everything that, that is positive and beneficial about my way of seeing things up here, and then everything that is awful and terrible about your ideas, right? So I, so I, so I form a diagonal.

Like, my idea is only awesome, your idea is only terrible.

So I think all of that on, on the level of culture and kind of in institutions and also i- individual psyches, like, all of that from the personal to the systemic is just still really strongly and powerfully at play here, um, in terms of how these institutions and our, our schools function and how, how, how, the risks that we're willing to take and looking at ourselves, I mean, really fundamentally.