But I keep going back to why would this time be different? I'm trying to be skeptical here.

It's a good question.

It's an outstanding question.

And admittedly, we cover this in the book.

What it's going to take is a lot of courage on behalf of the CEOs that are running the banks, because right now it's such a. product-centric milieu that we're in, sell credit cards, sell mortgages.

And it's hard to get any leader to break out of that mindset, especially when, well, this is generating revenue now.

We're talking about a five-year path.

Lou, do you want to add anything from your perspective, from like Bankadelic, et cetera? Yeah, absolutely.

But I'd love to get your thoughts on what you saw in Dharmesh's writing and then what you kind of did in terms of, I guess, making it more approachable for the layperson.

Yeah, let's talk about the seeds.

First of all, you guys do a brilliant job with your FinTech Futures work.

And that was when I realized you both had writing talent.

I knew you had talent and ability in so many other areas.

But my reaction reading your work was, wow, I'm learning something here.

This is really relatable.

I don't know how we got to that point, but what are the skills that the boards or banks really need, do you think, going forward? I think, first of all, it's

But I'd love to get your thoughts on what you saw in Dharmesh's writing and then what you kind of did in terms of, I guess, making it more approachable for the layperson.

Yeah, let's talk about the seeds.

First of all, you guys do a brilliant job with your FinTech Futures work.

And that was when I realized you both had writing talent.

I knew you had talent and ability in so many other areas, but my reaction reading your work was, wow, I'm learning something here.

This is really relatable.

And the seeds of the book, as I understand it, began with a working title, Limitless.

What do you think? Credit cards