Why is it different this time around?

Sure, sure.

Look, let me and this is where it's not to talk about my career, but this is where the benefit of hindsight really comes in.

When I first started in technology in the bank, I'd already been writing games for PCs and also had been learning my craft originally on terminal access to a mainframe from the college.

But when I first started at the bank, I was working on one of the very first releases of the IBM 1390 mainframe, right? Which at the time cost about 4 million, right? Plus, depending on the add-ons that you took.

And I remember the PC coming out and thinking, wow, like before you need to have 4 million quid.

Now you just need a PC, right? And that's going to be transformational.

What are those forces? And what is the concept that you have developed around this?

Why five? Why not 10 years? Why not give yourself a little bit longer leeway? What exactly is the things that, you know, banks need to do and decide by then why?

Look, the answer to that is all in the book, which I urge everyone to read, because it's quite complicated.

But once you understand it, you just kind of think, oh, suddenly you can see this jigsaw has come together, right? Because without it, the pieces are all happening independently.

It's like, as Lewis said, is that the convergence actually comes to something different, right? So banks have been very good at adopting individual technologies.

That's why we haven't seen a disruption in any one of those technologies.

So if I look at the past, the shift from mainframe to PCs and client server, the shift towards the internet, the shift towards mobile, the shift towards cloud, cloud native, right? None of those have actually created a disruptive event in banking, in which case we might as well say, well, there's been no disruption in banking for decades, right? However, we have seen disruption elsewhere and specifically like the smartphone.

So if you look at the smartphone, what actually happened was that, you know, you had Nokia busily making a better phone, right? And the iPhone came along and it was a better phone, but it was also a better camera and a GPS device and a thousand other applications in the app store, right? That had better bandwidth, et cetera.

And I think once you get the person who is the visionary and can understand this, it's game over.

Why did you pick the date 2032?

For a number of factors.

One is that, look, if I go through the technologies, then, you know, the only one that kind of questions the date whether it will happen within the five years was quantum.

But even quantum, this time last year, people were saying you have to be QSA by 2035 at the earliest.

So you can kick that project off.

down the road for another five years and then start to look at it then.

But within the space of us writing the book, that estimate has dropped from 2035 to 2030, which actually means that banks need to be working on their QSA programs now.

And I think because you can't apply the same rules that you've applied all along to this, can you, Dharmesh?