So I think that just goes back to why good integrators that are worth their salt on the project have really good design and they produce good documentation so that that thing that you can't really visualise at the time, you can actually put onto paper and we can give clients drawings and elevations so that they say oh okay now i understand i've seen my joinery drawing and then now you've overlaid your stuff onto there and i actually get how it's going to feel and sense in the room and they can stand in the room and look at that and say okay yeah i'm happy with that that's what i want so

and i think To possibly be slightly controversial about it, it is still regarded, perhaps as evidenced by the people who are here, as a kind of man's world.

And you will have a project where either the man will say, I'll take over the sound, or the woman will be, I care much more about what colour my kitchen cupboards are going to be.

As I say, to stereotype, but there are those particular tropes within the industry and within this world of AV.

And so what you need really is an understanding very often that it is perhaps women that will make the final decision because they perhaps care more and they will veto, you know, something if they don't want it.

Whereas if the...

If the integrators can talk very much to the women and reassure them that it's not going to look like a nightclub, it doesn't have to be painted black and, you know, belong in the forecourt with the Ferrari, you know, it's a real home and it can still look like a real home and not like a tech box.

Kate, before today, who did you think smart home technology was for? If you had to associate it with a typical client, where would you put that with?