He's just unstoppable.

Yeah, he's still in imperious form, isn't he? Last weekend, as Bernie said.

I mean, he's only 17 points off George, so...

If you were a betting man today, you would put money on Matt's being second in the world championship.

The run of form he's on.

I just thought, like Bernie was saying, you know, he...

He was on such good form at one with the car.

Yeah.

What did you make of it?

He dug Ferrari out of a hole.

And so did the safety cars, to be fair.

When the race finally got started and I saw that Ferrari and McLaren had opted to put slicks on, initially I thought, OK, it looks pretty dry.

But as soon as they set off in the pit lane, you could see the spray coming off the tyres and we saw Gasly flying off and Lewis was really struggling to stay on.

I thought they've got the box.

They've absolutely got the box at the end of this formation lap.

A lot of drivers said it just isn't good enough.

There's a triple with here, then to Istanbul Park, and then to Singapore, which logistically will be interesting.

Yeah, I think...

I tell you what, we can't underestimate the challenge of these triples because we're at a point in the season for teams with spare parts and things.

You've gone from Madrid to here and then you've got Malaysia and then Singapore.

You've got three street races.

out of those four, right? And, you know, as we do more and more of these street races, it's tough for the teams, producing spare parts, producing enough components to service them in the back end of the season.

So it is a big challenge, but I think on the whole, I'm pleased Turkey's back because I think it's a great track.

Will they have it sewn up with him for five years if they want a Red Bull, basically? Is that how it works?

And that, I think, is why... people are saying this man is a generational talent because it's one thing to have an ability, it's another to have that controlled ability and to start being very mature at an age where I think all three of us can agree we certainly wouldn't have been capable of doing anything near what Kimi Antonelli is doing.

I think that's a really good point you make because the fact that he's a generational talent, I think we talked about it even last year, but I think the maturity wasn't there and the mistakes were there.

And because the talent is talent, you're born with it, right? And we saw it in Junior Formula 7 karting.

It's, I remember, you know, when I look back on the Skypack, I remember doing that red flag, that first lap where he picked his moments, he waited, he backed out of moves, he didn't damage his front wing.

I think, to me, that's the maturity that we've seen between last year and this year, that he's thinking of the big picture.

He's thinking of what position he wants to be in on lap 53, not lap two.

And for me, you're spot on.

Can you?

But you really do have to stick at it.

How much have you seen it, uh, change in terms of the makeup of the paddock? You know, I, I think back, we obviously we're talking about South Asian Heritage Month here, but I think back to the '80s, you know, um, Indy Lal, who's a McLaren stalwart, just retired after 45 years of service.

He was probably the only person who looked like us that I recall seeing in the paddock if I watch back videos from the '80s.

And it's changed a bit.

I don't think it's changed, uh, enough yet.

But w- tell me about your experience.

When, you know, when you, you obviously see people at the factory, the people at the paddock is just, what are we talking? You know, 1/10 of the people who actually work in Formula 1?

I did one in 2013.

How soon, guys?

And I remember sitting in the truck, you know, as my first sort of briefing before the morning of the test, and you could just see the weight that David carried in the room.

Remember they're testing the, the quick adjust brake bias adjuster that a lot of teams had, you know, the little lever that we used to see Schumacher sort of moving along.

So Red Bull were testing it and, you know, just the attention to detail that David carried in terms of the positioning of it and how you would reach it and where would you...

You know, I just remember those little details, those conversations, thinking, "This is a guy who the rest of the team look at for giving them direction and moving them forward."

Mm.

It's not, he's not here for outright speed.

They can, they've got the Liuzzis and the young pups for that.

But I think for me,

the thing is, It's so hard to judge when people are on different teams, right? Obviously, you know, at McLaren, despite the qualifying in Phoenix, he was generally behind Senna, but guess what? Most people would have been behind Senna, so that is what it is.

I think, you know, for me, it's more you look at what happened when he... was a Ferrari, and then the swap with Schumacher, you know, for him and Lazy with Schumacher.

And, you know, you just see what happened to Benetton since they did that swap, right? So then you start to question whether, hang on a second, If Schumacher was in a 94 Ferrari or a 95 Ferrari, what would the results have been that year? And so then you start, it brings a whole lot of questions around that, I think.

Because

you'd expect that maybe from a rookie,

not someone who's been...

And I think also, you know, you have to look at, we're going to come out of the drivers, you know, going forward.

Will he be satisfied with these upgrades? Because for the first time, pr- I mean, I mean, you can argue that there was one other opportunity as well earlier in the season, but you know, he's now got a car at, at, at a track like Austria where he can challenge these Mercedes cars, Karun.

That was the most convincing performance we've seen from Red Bull and Max this season, I think.

Um, you know, on Friday they looked a bit uncomfortable trying to get the, the upgrade to work, but they hit the ground running on Saturday.

I think if he hadn't have gone off on the curb and, and done whatever damage he did in qualifying, which cost him the rear downforce and therefore caused the accident, he would've been third on the grid.

And if he had been third on the grid, I think he would've absolutely have challenged George much more.

So I think that's the first what if.

The second what if is, I wonder if they just went a bit too long on that, um, second stint there, 'cause the gap, he was down to 1.2 seconds.

But it's, it's kind of weirdly judged, isn't it, with regards to whereas on the, uh, on the ICE as opposed to everything combined?

Uh, okay, but what about, uh, the rest of the team? Because we talk about the, the joyous scenes for Lewis, stark contrast for the other side of the garage.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, Charles had two DNFs in a row now, you know, zero points, uh, in Monaco with that crash, and then in Barcelona, a tricky one, but...

So, as a team, they, they've got to, they've got to try and address the, the issues that Charles had because he's incredibly fast.

In Barcelona as well, he was as quick as Lewis, if not quicker, Q1, Q2, he was right there, um, till he made a mistake, had the crash, and that, you know, effectively ruined his chance to, to win.

'Cause I think they could have had both cars up against Mercedes at the front.

So Charles has got to think about his side of it now.

There's definitely belief that they can do it, and especially because we've seen it so many times in the past, the Mercedes drivers are gonna take points off each other c- throughout the year, so this is a really, really good chance for them to make something happen.

Let's just remember that when you get kicked out at some point, whenever that may be." It's just the nature of our business and, and you have to be ready for it.

It is.

I think, you know, it's a, it's a brutal sport as we know, you know.

And, and I think for me it, it was about that carpe diem.

He, he had that opportunity.

The strategy worked out, the Mercedes crash, all that happened, but here was an 18-year-old kid, first race in the big team, world champion Kimi Räikkönen on his gearbox for two thirds of it, just sitting there within a second or so, and he didn't lock up, he didn't put a foot wrong, he just seized the opportunity.

And, you know, I, straight after the race, I remember seeing you in the pit lane actually, and you went off and you, you, as you normally do, to see the team bosses.

Nico on it, didn't he? Um, but I- I- I think it was, uh, a day late and a dollar short, that defense.

Yeah, yeah

... busy weekend.

Uh, but I, I feel like this, for so many people just walking down here, it feels like the first day of the season, honestly.

'Cause I think the, the winter was, was really hard for a lot of people in the team, just getting the cars out the door.

Testing was a tough, you know, nine days.

And then by the time they got to Melbourne, they're all a bit bleary-eyed, whereas they've had a restful few weeks, time to digest real racing information of how their cars have performed and their rivals have performed, and they've reset.

And I, I feel like everyone's got here energized and there's a, there's a bounce in their step.

... and, uh, at least I've got him for the next year or two, that means that he's staying.

But they'll be enjoying all this, won't they, McLaren? Getting stronger whilst, I suppose, weakening a key rival.

I think the culture point is really important, right? Because at the end of the day, you look at Red Bull last year, they won six out of the last nine Grands Prix.

The car improved a hell of a lot.

They arguably had the fastest car at a lot of that back end of the season last year, or at least equal fastest, right? But clearly, people need more than just...

success on track.

And I think for whatever reason, this brain drain has gone on and there's a cultural shift absolutely has happened throughout the organization with all the names you've mentioned who've gone.

There's a big job there for Laura McKay's and the ownership from Rebel Austria to figure out how are we going to stop this? How are we going to stop the brain drain? How do we make ourselves attractive? Because guess what? Right now, You want to attract people from Mercedes.

And what do we, what do we think about where he's at the moment? It sounds

Or they're passing on the battery.

is they're passing on the battery, right? And you get that in other championships.

You have it in sports cars.

You have it in other types of racing.

So to me, I think we all have to get used to this new type of Formula One.

The battle that we saw between Charles and Lewis that he talked about there being such a great, you know, fun thing for him to experience, that was pure driving.

Those overtaking moves in the middle of the second lap was pure bravery, pure commitment, and also innovative and creative thinking in terms of where you overtake.

I see scepticism on your face.

engineer, yeah.

Because as far as we understand, Brian Botsey, who is Charles Leclerc's normal race engineer, was running the car today, including for Lewis.

Yep.

That confuses me, if I'm perfectly honest, because, you know, that relationship between driver and race engineer is so, so important.

And just picking up on Ant's point there, you know, I think getting the feedback from the driver, really, from my experience, the good engineer driver relationships are the unspoken things.

You know, the engineer and the driver should be able to read each other's minds.

You one's complaining about something, the other one's already able to finish their sentences and say, we're going to do this, this, this, and this and change it and that'll make you better or make it better for you.

And would it help if you're two experienced guys like Bottas and Perez going into this new rules formula, do you think?