Um, what does a contemporary relationship between designers and the communities they're working with look like? And this could also mean you're designing for or with communities that you're part of.

Um, [laughs] I am designing for the community that I am a part of as an interaction designer.

Um, I have a background in interaction design, and I have formal education in interaction design.

Um, so how I even found out about deceptive design is that someone happened to mention the word dark patterns in my undergrad, and no one really...

We didn't really have a course on it, or we didn't really get to- ... talk about it with each other.

It's just that someone happened to mention it, and then I started doing my own research, and then I started looking into it, um, more.

[laughs] And that ended up in me being interested in the topic, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else, uh, sort of even knows what it is by the end of their degree.

Nope, we're not gonna do it." Um, and then when I did the s- first survey, people were like, "Yeah, we want more training on it," but again, there's, there's no help for us.