Where does that guilt come from, and how do you negotiate firmly without overly, being overly confrontational or irrational?

I think, uh, when people ...

This hasn't been studied too well when people are being made redundant, but when they're asking, when, when they're adjoining a job, uh, 57% of men and only 8% of women, um, will negotiate for a higher salary.

And in the United States among MBAs, that tends to mean $5,000 extra.

So negotiating does help.

Presumably, it also helps when we exit although, uh, there's no study on that right now that I know of.

Um, I think we feel like a bad person.

So when does redundancy stop being a stressful life event and become something that needs treatment?

I wanted to get her back, though.

I know like I was thinking about dieting and I was going to be interviewed for a documentary, which I knew would be viewed by a lot of people.

And I watched myself deliberately choose a shirt that I knew I could no longer fit well.

And I when I watched the playback of the documentary, I felt so embarrassed by the way I look and how tight this shirt was that I filled myself with shame in a sense of why did I choose that shirt? It looked appalling.

And I wonder if in some ways I was punishing myself as a form of motivation, like, just get on a program.

And maybe it worked.

I guess it did work because a couple of months later I was on a program.

So Jonathan, what's the risk of putting off doing something about letting yourself go until you feel motivated? I

... to do something for you?

Well, at the moment, because I've brought her into my office, she's thinking, "Oh, it's obvious we're gonna do something.

I'm gonna get fed." So she thinks she's gonna get fed.

Well, at the moment, all her lunch is currently defrosting, so she can't have it until it's defrosted.

That's what s- she's thinking of.

Um, so I, I would say that there's very little love comes back from the falcons, but there is love that comes back from the horses.

That's no question.

... just a, a synthetic change, and actually people can be sort of jolted out of it by an exposure to something like your show or, or, or is it deeper than that?

And then I've been so busy that I just saw it now.

It was very, very exciting times.

I lived in Silicon Valley.

I was a Stanford student.

And I just made one of those like remarkable mistakes.

It was in the days when a lot of people didn't, you know, like email was around.

But when you rejected someone, you know, you might send them a letter, say they had a job application.

So because that is a pretty depressing point, how do you help people out of that? What are things that people can do to live beyond that? What is the thing that you help them through? How do you overcome that?